Bought a CAI Garand What Are My Options

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  • OverTheTop

    Member
    Mar 1, 2017
    85
    Baltimore City
    I'm gonna go over the backstop of this CAI garand and how I ended up buying it, as I think it will help inform the discussion and answer some questions. However if you are only interested in the gunsmithing related questions, skip past the next 5 paragraphs to the gunsmithing questions.

    Backstory:
    In early December 2017, I decided I wanted to buy a garand. I had investigated the CMP, but the process seemed complicated and turned me off from trying, so I instead decided to look around on Gunbroker(first noob mistake). I found what I thought was an excellent deal at the time, where a gunstore had posted a garand with a bandoleer of ammo on clips and only for ~$740! Considering most GB offerings were well into the 1000+ range, this seemed like a potentially great deal. Even so, I was a bit suspicious and started looking at the description, to see if there was anything wrong with the gun. The only apparent thing was that it was a CAI production gun, red flag number one, which at the time I had no idea what CAI was. That should have been my clue to do my damn research, but I just assumed CAI meant it was a modern production gun and didn'tthink much else of it.

    Since I just wanted a shooter I didn't care if the gun had any historical value or not, so I decided to bid on the garand. Unlucky for me, although I didn't know it at the time, I won. Fast forward a week or so, the gun arrives, and I'm as giddy as a schoolgirl, because now I own a garand! I also had put additional $60 in at this point for shipping and transfer fees, so my total is now up to $800. Still I always field strip, inspect, clean, and re-lube any gun I buy. I finish cleaning inspecting and start practicing how to load and unload the gun, which is when I discovered the next red flag, number two. The bolt felt very stiff to open and if I brought the bolt forward slowly it would sometimes not rotate correctly and seize just out of battery. Having never owned a garand, I thought both those issues were odd, but didn't think as much about it as I should have. I assumed that I just didn't lube the gun right, so I field stripped it again and added more grease to the bolt lugs, the oprod bolt interfaces, and the oprod track.

    I take the gun out to the range the following weekend, and start putting rounds through. Don't worry nothing catastrophic happened, but after a clip or two through the gun, the oprod guide lug jumped its track, which was red flag number three. To the guns credit it seemed fine before this happened, but I knew the oprod jumping its track was definitely not supposed to happen, so I immediately stopped shooting.

    At home, I spent more time inspecting the gun and doing research on why this might happen. And most of my research pointed to a bent or worn out oprod. Looking over the oprod, the wear on it seemed to confirm this conclusion, so I purchased a new oprod, oprod spring, and bolt for good measure, an additional $200 bringing my total up to $1000. I bolt the new bolt, as the old bolt also seemed to have excessive wear and I figured if the old oprod was damaged then the old bolt could be damaged as a result. I get the new parts, lube them as before and reassemble the gun with them. The gun seemed to work better. Unlocking wasn't as stiff and riding the bolt forward slowly seemed to more reliably rotate and lock the bolt closed. Unlocking the bolt still felt a little stiffer than seemed right and if I rode the bolt forward in just the right way, it wouldn't rotate and lock closed. Looking back this should have been the final straw and my point to turn around a get rid of this gun, but I kept it and moved on.

    I took the gun out to a few more range trips in early 2018, firing about 100 rounds through it and it seemed to be fine. However around this time I graduated college and started a new job and was tight on money, so I didn't get a chance to shoot the gun until recently. I took it out last weekend and I'm not exactly sure how to describe it, but the gun just felt off. It felt and sounded like the action cycling was noticeably delayed after each shot. Admittedly this could have been paranoia, but if got me looking at the gun and digging into the CAI garands. I've put no more than 200 through this gun and the new bolt and oprod, just seem way to worn for that amount of use. I also discovered online that CAI garand receivers are known for being a crap shoot and best to just stay away. Thinking through all the problems I've had, it seems likely that I have a bad CAI receiver, and that further shooting this gun is just going to result in another worn out bolt and oprod.


    Skip here past the backstory, if you just want to read the Gunsmithing questions:

    So that brings us to the present. I have a CAI garand which I think is showing clear signs, that it has one of the bad out of spec receviers.
    Should I pay to have it inspected to know for sure? I was considering having Fulton Armory do this.

    Is it better to just cut my losses and sell this as a cheap for parts gun?

    I was also considering finding a different receiver and having someone strip the parts off the CAI receiver and reassembling them on the new receiver. Not sure if this is worth it though? The gun does have a Danish stock and barrel and both the original bolt and oprod as well as the new set are Springfield armory, so there is some potential value in doing this.

    I could also turn around and sell this to someone else as is, but the thought of selling someone a defective gun, just doesn't sit right with me. Especially because someone took advantage of my ignorance to do the same.

    Anyways this is where I open the floor to hear suggestions or answers to my questions. Also I can post pictures if anyone want to see particular areas of the gun. Appreciate anyone who has taken the time to read this far!
     

    ken792

    Ultimate Member
    Sep 2, 2011
    4,480
    Fairfax, VA
    Get a take-off GI receiver or recover a drill rifle receiver and build that up. Take the CAI receiver to a “gun buyback” that will accept receivers. Don’t throw good money after bad
     

    OverTheTop

    Member
    Mar 1, 2017
    85
    Baltimore City
    Get a take-off GI receiver or recover a drill rifle receiver and build that up. Take the CAI receiver to a “gun buyback” that will accept receivers. Don’t throw good money after bad

    Haha I like the idea of turning the CAI receiver into a gun buyback! Get rid of a crappy product and own the libs at the same time!

    This is where I was considering going though, just salvage what I can from the gun and build it into a usable rifle. That being said even if I do flip it, it would be sold as is for parts and I would honestly consider having the CAI receiver removed, just to get it out of the gene pool.
     

    ken792

    Ultimate Member
    Sep 2, 2011
    4,480
    Fairfax, VA
    It’s too bad that the CMP no longer sells Grade C receivers on their own. They were $125 in 2014 and they were well received for doing shooter builds.

    They also no longer take orders on drill rifles. Check the CMP Forums to see if people report the North Store still having drill rifles on the racks. Some of the ones I remember seeing a few years ago had nice wood and some didn’t have a weld in the op rod track
     

    OverTheTop

    Member
    Mar 1, 2017
    85
    Baltimore City
    It’s too bad that the CMP no longer sells Grade C receivers on their own. They were $125 in 2014 and they were well received for doing shooter builds.

    They also no longer take orders on drill rifles. Check the CMP Forums to see if people report the North Store still having drill rifles on the racks. Some of the ones I remember seeing a few years ago had nice wood and some didn’t have a weld in the op rod track

    Thanks for the advice, I'll lurk around the CMP and see what I can dig up.

    What kills me the most, is that a few months prior to when I bought the CAI, I was considering buying a barreled receiver from a member on this forum. I believe it was a VAR barrel on a SA or HRA receiver, only $400. I decided against it because I wasn't as committed to doing a project rifle, but considering what I did buy, that would have been the smarter purchase.
     

    Doco Overboard

    Ultimate Member
    Op rod tracks at the rear of a CAI receiver can be sketchy at best depending what you have.
    Sounds like the bolt as it is traveling forward may be bumping the trigger group into the stock.
    Or There some othe malady that could be difficult to remedy.
    On the flip side of a CAI, don’t be surprised if the receiver bridge specs better than some Gi receivers for firing pin dwell timing.
    The down side to that is a rough bolt and othe Oos issues make them a crap shoot at best when you really dig into them.
    When the CAI parts came out of Canada and elsewhere half the op rods were already beat.
    Look into the camming lugs on the rod To see if they are peened up.
    Check the tab ( inspection procedure in the GS Tab right here on the site)
    When you decide to scrap the receiver pm me so I can buy it from you.
    Look at your barrel and see if it has a Var one on it. You might have a some relief from the problems you are having to some small extent.
     

    Sundazes

    My brain hurts
    MDS Supporter
    Nov 13, 2006
    21,303
    Arkham
    You could go see Charlie Maloney. For under $50 he will do a complete inspection including tear down, gauging, etc. The man knows his stuff. It is worth a few bucks to see if it is salvageable.
    He is in Catonsville. You need to make an appt. and stay during the inspection. He will tell you what you have and not pull any punches.

    http://www.charliemaloney.com
     

    Augie

    Ultimate Member
    Sep 30, 2007
    4,504
    Central MD
    You could go see Charlie Maloney. For under $50 he will do a complete inspection including tear down, gauging, etc. The man knows his stuff. It is worth a few bucks to see if it is salvageable.
    He is in Catonsville. You need to make an appt. and stay during the inspection. He will tell you what you have and not pull any punches.

    http://www.charliemaloney.com


    While I agree with the recommendation to have Charlie look at the rifle I'm not so sure he will work on a CAI rifle, same for Fulton. Would not hurt to ask.
    As bad as the rifle appears to be you may just want to cut your substantial losses and invest in an original GI Garand, a nice one should be able to be found for around a grand. I bet it would be more than that to have Charlie or Fulton correctly build yours.
     

    OverTheTop

    Member
    Mar 1, 2017
    85
    Baltimore City
    While I agree with the recommendation to have Charlie look at the rifle I'm not so sure he will work on a CAI rifle, same for Fulton. Would not hurt to ask.
    As bad as the rifle appears to be you may just want to cut your substantial losses and invest in an original GI Garand, a nice one should be able to be found for around a grand. I bet it would be more than that to have Charlie or Fulton correctly build yours.

    More than likely if have Charlie or Fulton do anything beyond inspecting the gun, it would be to debarrel the receiver. That way I can either reuse the parts on in spec receiver or more sell them as a kit or individually.
     

    OverTheTop

    Member
    Mar 1, 2017
    85
    Baltimore City
    Op rod tracks at the rear of a CAI receiver can be sketchy at best depending what you have.
    Sounds like the bolt as it is traveling forward may be bumping the trigger group into the stock.
    Or There some othe malady that could be difficult to remedy.
    On the flip side of a CAI, don’t be surprised if the receiver bridge specs better than some Gi receivers for firing pin dwell timing.
    The down side to that is a rough bolt and othe Oos issues make them a crap shoot at best when you really dig into them.
    When the CAI parts came out of Canada and elsewhere half the op rods were already beat.
    Look into the camming lugs on the rod To see if they are peened up.
    Check the tab ( inspection procedure in the GS Tab right here on the site)
    When you decide to scrap the receiver pm me so I can buy it from you.
    Look at your barrel and see if it has a Var one on it. You might have a some relief from the problems you are having to some small extent.

    I think any of they issues you mentioned, or even a combination of those issues, could be my problem, but its hard to say for sure. I'm an engineer, so I have some sense for this stuff, but I don't have the intuition a machinist or gunsmith would have nor that of someone who has worked with these guns for years.

    That being said, I took a bunch of pictures on the parts and areas you mentioned, as well as other high wear spots. Anyone feel free to check them out here(https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1fZO1N3aXO-nniMvkSkPJiwb824dYYTmo?usp=sharing)

    If I debarrel the receiver, I will definitely keep you in mind. I won't have much use for the CAI receiver after that, besides as paper weight or for display.
     

    OverTheTop

    Member
    Mar 1, 2017
    85
    Baltimore City
    You could go see Charlie Maloney. For under $50 he will do a complete inspection including tear down, gauging, etc. The man knows his stuff. It is worth a few bucks to see if it is salvageable.
    He is in Catonsville. You need to make an appt. and stay during the inspection. He will tell you what you have and not pull any punches.

    http://www.charliemaloney.com

    I seen a few threads mention Charlie before posting, so I will most likely reach out to him. Plus I live in Baltimore, so Catonsville would be a lot easier for me to get to as opposed to Fulton over in Savage.
     

    OverTheTop

    Member
    Mar 1, 2017
    85
    Baltimore City
    Well I went and saw Charlie Maloney. I paid him to inspect the gun and as it turns out the only thing he found that wasn't wrong with the gun, was the CAI receiver. Ironic I know.

    The stock was cracked and not even clamping properly. Gas piston head was so worn, the piston gage easily passed around it. The gas cylinder was also worn out.The barrel was almost shot out, failed the straightness test, and failed the headspace check.

    Charlie did let me know that if I wanted to, we could rebuild a decent gun around the CAI receiver. Given I want a Garand anyways to have as a shooter, I will most likely pursue this option. Charlie was of the opinion that it was either that, or purchase a CMP Garand which would need work regardless, so either way I'm spending more money to get a Garand. I'll be spending the next few months saving money, to get this mutt of a rifle in decent shape.
     

    JamesDong

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Aug 13, 2020
    3,260
    Duffield, Va
    We all make bad buys at one time or another....... time to cut bait, run and get another authentic piece that you know is a good rifle.
     

    mac1_131

    MSI Executive Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 31, 2009
    3,280
    Sorry to hear this, but very glad you posted this as a lesson for others.

    I have a lot of M1's, and know a lot about them, but wasn't aware they had their own crappy cast receivers made.

    Sent from my SM-G970U1 using Tapatalk
     

    OverTheTop

    Member
    Mar 1, 2017
    85
    Baltimore City
    Sorry to hear this, but very glad you posted this as a lesson for others.

    I have a lot of M1's, and know a lot about them, but wasn't aware they had their own crappy cast receivers made.

    Sent from my SM-G970U1 using Tapatalk

    Well in defense on this particular CAI receiver, Charlie Maloney said it was fine based on his examination.

    If there is one lesson I can pass from that man to this forum, its that many Garands are in substandard condition, even from the CMP. Make sure the one you buy, is one that you can handle and test before purchase.
     

    OverTheTop

    Member
    Mar 1, 2017
    85
    Baltimore City
    Let me know if you want to part ways with that reciever and make a couple dollars back towards repairs.

    I like to collect things like that for experimentation purposes.:crazy:

    I may take you up on that, but for now I will hang on to it. Charlie seemed to think the receiver was in fine shape and could be use for another build. I'm planning to go that route, but may change my mind later.
     

    bpm32

    Active Member
    Nov 26, 2010
    675
    I don’t know, man. If it were me I would just buy a Service Grade from CMP, which will be in military spec and perfectly safe to shoot. Charlie is probably referring to worn out CMP Rack Grades. Even if that’s not the case, smiths tend to have a much higher definition of “acceptable” than most casual shooters.

    Second thing is, even if you end up sinking a fair amount of money into turning that CAI receiver into a nice gun, it will have little value because it’s not USGI. A CMP Service Grade is instantaneously worth more than you paid because most people mistakenly look at the CMP website and say, “well that’s just too much paperwork”.
     

    Doco Overboard

    Ultimate Member
    I may take you up on that, but for now I will hang on to it. Charlie seemed to think the receiver was in fine shape and could be use for another build. I'm planning to go that route, but may change my mind later.

    10-4 sounds like a good idea to hang on to it. You never know when something like that could turn into something useful.

    I have a lot of Garands too and know next to nothing about them. Things like the CAI receivers help me learn about what makes them into clones of the other models with M1C scope mounts and other things like that.:)
     

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