LEO using 77R for banned "assault" weapons?

basscat said:

You didn't really pay for it and you really didnt work off your dept. While you were "working off" your debt you were collecting a salary. The only time it would be a dept is if you quit within a 2 or 3 year time frame of graduating the academy. While you were in the academy getting training you were collecting a salary also. I think it a stretch to say you paid for it.

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Some posters seem to forget about that tricky salary issue related to training and "service to pay back the debt".

1time said:

Yup, you are right. I will start calling my reps and see if they can make it so police need the HQL and in the name of all being equal, see if they can pass an amendment requiring 56 hrs a year of training to maintain it. That’s what the police require and they can’t shoot, right. Maybe add actual live fire with a real qual course instead of the current watered down version of live fire.

Maybe I can get them to pass a bill to requirement to use pesticide or fertilizer. After all, I need to be licensed, so should you.

You want to divide gun owners, so be it. The way to get around bad laws is to have it apply to less people, not more people but many aren’t smart enough to see it.

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Some people are so blinded by their hate and jealousy that they wouldn't see it if it hit them in the head tied to a brick.

basscat said:

You didn't really pay for it and you really didnt work off your dept. While you were "working off" your debt you were collecting a salary. The only time it would be a dept is if you quit within a 2 or 3 year time frame of graduating the academy. While you were in the academy getting training you were collecting a salary also. I think it a stretch to say you paid for it.

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FACT: I DID pay for it through indentured servitude on the existing debt. So you can keep your damned obama-ism "you did not pay for that" bs.

28Shooter said:

Some posters seem to forget about that tricky salary issue related to training and "service to pay back the debt".

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Some posters are smart enough to realize that a payment via indentured servitude is OFTEN more expensive than just paying cash. $100.00? That is all you had to pay? MINE cost me years to work off. $100.00 is a damned bargain. And if you don't think so... go obligate yourself to such a debt so that you can work in a field where you help people every day that hate your fvckin guts.

1time said:

Yup, you are right. I will start calling my reps and see if they can make it so police need the HQL and in the name of all being equal, see if they can pass an amendment requiring 56 hrs a year of training to maintain it. That’s what the police require and they can’t shoot, right. Maybe add actual live fire with a real qual course instead of the current watered down version of live fire.

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Again, we are talking about two different things here. One is a professional certification that you guys had to get in order to have your jobs. The other is a license that people have to get in order to exercise their rights. I have a philosophical issue with the existence of such a license to begin with, but if it exists, everyone should have to get one, not just "civilians."

Also, there's no reason to require non-police to take the training that police take. We aren't trying to be police, and that's never been my position. Again, this isn't about training.

Also, please keep in mind that when you and RoadDawg and others equate the training and certifications that you had to get in order to do your jobs with a license required to exercise a right, you're taking a line of logic that says that it's ok to require training and licensing to exercise a right. That's dangerous territory for many reasons.

You want to divide gun owners, so be it.

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That is exactly my point. This law was designed to divide non-cop gun owners from cops. I am saying that there should be no division between us. It is you and RD and a few other posters in this thread who are taking a position that because you're cops and have the training to be a cop, you should be exempt from having to have a license to exercise your rights like the rest of us. I.e. you are a separate class from "normal" people by dint of your jobs. I think that's a wrong and dangerous (because of the division that it creates) position to take.

RoadDawg said:

FACT: I DID pay for it through indentured servitude on the existing debt.

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That wasn't indentured servitude. It was a job that you freely decided to take.

So you can keep your damned obama-ism "you did not pay for that" bs.

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Can we keep this civil, please?

Some posters are smart enough to realize that a payment via indentured servitude is OFTEN more expensive than just paying cash. $100.00? That is all you had to pay? MINE cost me years to work off. $100.00 is a damned bargain. And if you don't think so... go obligate yourself to such a debt so that you can work in a field where you help people every day that hate your fvckin guts.

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No one forced you to take the job. Yes, being a cop is incredibly difficult. I thought about it pretty hard at one point in my life, but after speaking to several close friends who were BCPD (one guy who worked Eastern District in particular) I decided that it wasn't for me because I didn't want that kind of stress and to be in that kind of environment all the time because of what it would likely do to me. However...

MINE cost me years to work off.

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No it didn't, because you don't have one and that's the whole issue here.

Hawkeye said:

Again, we are talking about two different things here. One is a professional certification that you guys had to get in order to have your jobs. The other is a license that people have to get in order to exercise their rights. I have a philosophical issue with the existence of such a license to begin with, but if it exists, everyone should have to get one, not just "civilians."

Also, there's no reason to require non-police to take the training that police take. We aren't trying to be police, and that's never been my position. Again, this isn't about training.

Also, please keep in mind that when you and RoadDawg and others equate the training and certifications that you had to get in order to do your jobs with a license required to exercise a right, you're taking a line of logic that says that it's ok to require training and licensing to exercise a right. That's dangerous territory for many reasons.



That is exactly my point. This law was designed to divide non-cop gun owners from cops. I am saying that there should be no division between us. It is you and RD and a few other posters in this thread who are taking a position that because you're cops and have the training to be a cop, you should be exempt from having to have a license to exercise your rights like the rest of us. I.e. you are a separate class from "normal" people by dint of your jobs. I think that's a wrong and dangerous (because of the division that it creates) position to take.



That wasn't indentured servitude. It was a job that you freely decided to take.



Can we keep this civil, please?



No one forced you to take the job. Yes, being a cop is incredibly difficult. I thought about it pretty hard at one point in my life, but after speaking to several close friends who were BCPD (one guy who worked Eastern District in particular) I decided that it wasn't for me because I didn't want that kind of stress and to be in that kind of environment all the time because of what it would likely do to me. However...



No it didn't, because you don't have one and that's the whole issue here.

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Here is the difference between you and I. I don't want the law on the books. But as long as it is, I want as many exceptions to it as possible.

You also do not want the law, but as long as it is, you want as many people as possible to suffer.


You talk about separate classes but I consider myself very 2A and have for much longer than the HQL has been around. Despite the fact that my career happened to be carved out, I still fought against it, vote against it and the idiots that wrote it, signed it, and want to further it.

You on the other hand, want to further it? I guess we are in different classes.

Let's stop the sniping at each other and put this whole HQL nonsense back where it belongs - Annapolis. I thought when he got elected for his first term, the Governor was going to give us some relief on this - he gave us none and proudly signed off on more anti-gun legislation. Now that we've given him a second term, do you wanna' bet he'll again forget about us and side with our opponents?

Can this be related to the magazine limit law?
No training involved, just the division and again I believe this is done so they can get the votes to pass the law, carry on...

Divide and conquer, a favorite tactic of the left.

And this thread right here is a classic example of how effective that strategy really is.

Anybody know why you need to get fingerprinted so much? Do your fingerprints change over time? I've been fingerprinted several times for work, for the military, for the HQL, CCW, and shortly to work in the public school,system. Might need one for the serving alcohol thing but don't know yet.

Is it a chain of custody issue or what? Or is it simply harassment?

Not_an_outlaw said:

Anybody know why you need to get fingerprinted so much? Do your fingerprints change over time? I've been fingerprinted several times for work, for the military, for the HQL, CCW, and shortly to work in the public school,system. Might need one for the serving alcohol thing but don't know yet.

Is it a chain of custody issue or what? Or is it simply harassment?

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One reason... is to insure that it is still you...

Redundant... I know... but true.

28Shooter said:

Let's stop the sniping at each other and put this whole HQL nonsense back where it belongs - Annapolis. I thought when he got elected for his first term, the Governor was going to give us some relief on this - he gave us none and proudly signed off on more anti-gun legislation. Now that we've given him a second term, do you wanna' bet he'll again forget about us and side with our opponents?

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ironpony said:

Can this be related to the magazine limit law?
No training involved, just the division and again I believe this is done so they can get the votes to pass the law, carry on...

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A point I’ve been pressing since the start of this exchange. But... we must be “different classes of people”... it has to be true... right?

1time said:

Here is the difference between you and I. I don't want the law on the books. But as long as it is, I want as many exceptions to it as possible.

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And I get that, but my argument against exceptions is that they create both complacency on the part of the exempt and that they reinforce the line of logic that some people just shouldn't have those "dangerous" guns while others can. I don't want the law on the books either

You also do not want the law, but as long as it is, you want as many people as possible to suffer.

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I have never said that I want anyone to "suffer." What I do want is the law to treat everyone equally.

For what it's worth, I've also never said that I want the law amended in order to remove the exemptions. What I want is the law repealed altogether, because licensing rights is unconstitutional. What I was trying to point out with this whole argument is that the idea that it's ok for police to buy and own guns that the rest of us can't have simply because they're police is divisive and dangerous.

You talk about separate classes but I consider myself very 2A and have for much longer than the HQL has been around. Despite the fact that my career happened to be carved out, I still fought against it, vote against it and the idiots that wrote it, signed it, and want to further it.

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Look, you and I are allies on this, and the fact that we are both here on this forum and taking part in this discussion in the first place means that we're both really engaged on this subject. Please realize that when I use the words "special classes" that I don't meant that insultingly toward police officers. I use it as a reference to the idea which is built in to the exceptions in this law that some people are different, or better suited, or whatever, than others as far as owning guns goes (both in that they're HQL exempt and in that in some cases they can buy otherwise banned rifles). While there are certainly cops who see themselves as "better" than non-cops in a non-gun related sense, I certainly don't think that most officers see themselves that way.

I understand that terms like "special classes" are a sore spot, but I used those words very carefully and for a very specific reason, because I believe that people *should* be pissed off about it. Hell, I consider myself a member of one of the "special classes" as far as FSA 2013 goes, because I own grandfathered rifles. There is zero reason that I should be able to own those rifles while my friends who I'm introducing to shooting can't. I don't think that exemption should exist either, but it's because I don't think that the law as a whole should be on the books at all. I think that the grandfather exemption should piss off the non-grandfathered folks and if it does, it might light a fire under some asses to get people fighting against the law. I think that the LEO / Military exemptions should piss off the non-LEO / Military folks and if it does, maybe it'll light a fire under some more asses.

Again, please understand that I am not arguing against the fitness of police officers to own guns, or that you guys are somehow anti-gun by dint of being officers, or by being a member of one of the special classes, or that I think that you're somehow against the rest of us because you are. I don't think any of that.

People who cut grass professionally invest in better equipment, Mechanics buy better tools than the average home owner too. I have many friends who are LEOs and I never get the impression "they think they are better". I think they are going to be people in all professions who
Consider themselves better or a class above. I feel like LEOs may deserve a little special treatment now and then just because they risk their lives everyday, sometimes for people who may not deserve it. They definitely put up with shit that most of can't even imagine, on a daily basis. Some people see a cop and think it's their duty to give them a raft of shit for no apparent reason. Then look at how the media judges every move they make and seem to enjoy when an officer makes a mistake. There are dirty cops of course but I like to think that most are good people. Just my opinion.

Batt816 said:

People who cut grass professionally invest in better equipment, Mechanics buy better tools than the average home owner too. I have many friends who are LEOs and I never get the impression "they think they are better". I think they are going to be people in all professions who
Consider themselves better or a class above. I feel like LEOs may deserve a little special treatment now and then just because they risk their lives everyday, sometimes for people who may not deserve it. They definitely put up with shit that most of can't even imagine, on a daily basis. Some people see a cop and think it's their duty to give them a raft of shit for no apparent reason. Then look at how the media judges every move they make and seem to enjoy when an officer makes a mistake. There are dirty cops of course but I like to think that most are good people. Just my opinion.

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Well that's certainly going to elicit a response from the "Fringe" on this site.

You must be new here. Take the following posts with a grain of salt.

Name Taken said:

Well that's certainly going to elicit a response from the "Fringe" on this site.

You must be new here. Take the following posts with a grain of salt.

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Yes I am new to this forum, and I take everything with a grain of salt (I like to laugh). Not sure what the "fringe" is but I wasn't trying to offend anyone, just expressing my opinion.

Batt816 said:

People who cut grass professionally invest in better equipment, Mechanics buy better tools than the average home owner too. I have many friends who are LEOs and I never get the impression "they think they are better". I think they are going to be people in all professions who
Consider themselves better or a class above. I feel like LEOs may deserve a little special treatment now and then just because they risk their lives everyday, sometimes for people who may not deserve it. They definitely put up with shit that most of can't even imagine, on a daily basis. Some people see a cop and think it's their duty to give them a raft of shit for no apparent reason. Then look at how the media judges every move they make and seem to enjoy when an officer makes a mistake. There are dirty cops of course but I like to think that most are good people. Just my opinion.

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This is fairly close to the opinion shared by most of the folks I meet or have met in my life time.

Some folks... Not so much...

Peace, Merry Christmas and thank you for your thoughts on the topic.