When is an SBR not an SBR?

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  • SC-Texas

    Active Member
    Industry Partner
    Oct 12, 2017
    193
    When the ATF says so!

    An announcement from Franklin Armory.

    Trying to decide if this is fake or how they did it.

    An sbr
    Designed to be fired from shoulder
    1. Less than 16"
    Or
    2. Less than 26" overall

    Okay. My prediction.
    1. They took a mission first tactical stock that weighs 6 oz and convince the ATF that it's a stabilizing blade by putting a strap around it

    2. 1 rd per Trigger pull = rifle. This fires once when pulled and once when released. Therefore doesn't meet definition of rifle

    Could they play off this definition to move it Into firearm catagory?



    https://www.outdoorhub.com/news/201...arrel-firearm-standard-ar-stock-atf-approval/
    b384eaea71e1aa67c13e0c64757d6a09.jpg




    Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
     

    Silverlax

    Active Member
    Nov 13, 2014
    518
    Eastern Shore
    Barrel pinned and welded to the receiver..making the receiver essentially part of the barrel creating 16".....maybe? 40% Confused 60% Excited, trying not to get my hopes up about this. If it is true, it would be awesome if it is priced reasonably.
     

    pwoolford

    AR15's make me :-)
    Jan 3, 2012
    4,186
    White Marsh
    That is a real head scratcher. Can't possibly see how the gun in the picture doesn't require a stamp. I'm guessing some fine print like...

    *when sold with suppressor/flash hider permanently attached or when sold with brace instead of stock.
     

    pwoolford

    AR15's make me :-)
    Jan 3, 2012
    4,186
    White Marsh
    Smooth bore is an interesting idea. What would shot placement look like firing 5.56 out of a 11.5 smooth bore "pipe" at say 25 or 50 yards?

    (I already searched for a .223/5.56 barrel with smooth bore to test it myself but cannot find any :D)
     

    ironpony

    Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 8, 2013
    7,190
    Davidsonville
    Full disclosure: this is hear say from FB but further reading says smooth bore is confirmed as not the route they went.
    A bolt action can be an SBR so that makes me think the Not-semi auto and Not-full auto route might be a fail as well.?? I am leaning toward marketing stunt and hope their Shot Show booth is right next to ATFs booth!

    Lots of interesting ideas though.
     

    5cary

    On the spreading edge of the butter knife.
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 30, 2007
    3,634
    Sykesville, MD
    Is it just me or does that stock look undersized? Maybe it can't be shouldered "effectively". If it can be said about a Sig brace, then why not?

    Or there's an x300 in the receiver and it just "lights up" a room when you pull the trigger.
     

    ironpony

    Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 8, 2013
    7,190
    Davidsonville
    NSR Technology = Not a Shotgun or Rifle?? It is marketed as a "Firearm" (I was hoping rail gun). This is the first of their line to be introduced. Whole new market segment.

    anyway ... wait for shot show, or call atf asking for clarification...? haha
     

    Bountied

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 6, 2012
    6,888
    Pasadena
    The ATF says any rifled barrel less than 16", it doesn't use a rifled barrel and it's not a shotgun, so... Maybe it's smooth, fluted, straight lines for stabilization, etc. they did something that is a play on the wording of the ATF definition, kind of like the stabilizing brace.
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,815
    Barrel pinned and welded to the receiver..making the receiver essentially part of the barrel creating 16".....maybe? 40% Confused 60% Excited, trying not to get my hopes up about this. If it is true, it would be awesome if it is priced reasonably.

    I thought barrel length is measured from terminal crown of the barrel to the bolt face, in battery.
     

    woodline

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947
    As a publicity stunt, I would rate this 10/10. Very impressive in how much buzz it has created. Unless this is a centerfire "firearm" that has no major tradeoffs inside 100 yards AND ends up as MD legal, I don't think this product is for me. I love to see innovation though, so I hope whatever it is sells well for them.
     

    alucard0822

    For great Justice
    Oct 29, 2007
    17,643
    PA
    Most likely IMO is a release trigger or a set trigger(push to engage-pull to fire), even still would be surprised if the ATF went for that. So a rifle that does not fire on a single "pull" of the trigger. Guessing the 11.5" barrel (instead of a more common 10.5") was to keep OAL over 26". Being they already developed the binary trigger, would be easy to convert it to a release trigger.

    18 U.S.C., § 921(A)(7) and 27 CFR § 478.11


    2.1.3 Rifle. A rifle is a firearm designed to be fired from the shoulder and designed to use the energy of
    an explosive in a fixed cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled barrel for each single pull
    of the trigger.11 A rifle subject to the NFA has a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length.
    2.1.4 Weapon made from a rifle. A weapon made from a rifle is a rifle type weapon that has an
    overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length.
     

    ShafTed

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 21, 2013
    2,213
    Juuuuust over the line
    I'm pretty sure that the ATF has already ruled that binary triggers are OK, one shot on the "pull" and if you hold the trigger down nothing else happens. Ten minutes later you could release the trigger and get another shot, so "pull" and "release" are separate, single operations.
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    Most likely IMO is a release trigger or a set trigger(push to engage-pull to fire), even still would be surprised if the ATF went for that. So a rifle that does not fire on a single "pull" of the trigger. Guessing the 11.5" barrel (instead of a more common 10.5") was to keep OAL over 26". Being they already developed the binary trigger, would be easy to convert it to a release trigger.
    I think you are close. If I were going to game that definition of rifle, one thing I could do is install a mechanism where I needed to pull the trigger twice to fire. Remember, it says "each" single pull of the trigger. If it doesn't fire on "each" pull, it's not a rifle. That would be obnoxious to use, but would not meet the definition of rifle.
     

    woodline

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947
    The best theory I have seen theory does seem to revolve around the 26"+ length and having some kind of weird trigger that makes it not fit into any category, including rifle. I wonder if it's something like a push trigger in semi and the usual binary mode in "giggle" position.

    Another entertaining theory I read was that the trigger mechanism is normal semi + binary, but the firearm is designed to be fired from the hip instead of shoulder. That seems less plausible but more amusing.
     

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