Gun Owners of Maryland: BEWARE!

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  • babalou

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 12, 2013
    16,016
    Glenelg
    right

    Not quite the same as acknowledging receipt of an email that they originally had said was not under their purview.

    I’m mailing mine just to have a record of it

    That is why I was told to also send a letter via snail mail. That was done today from the Germantown PO.
     

    Doobie

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 23, 2013
    1,777
    Earth
    So shouldn’t EVERY Marylander submit this application, whether or not they are a gun owner? I’m sure non gun owners have items that could potentially increase the rate of fire of a weapon such as oil, finger/hand excercisers etc.
     

    CroftonBilly

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 26, 2011
    1,177
    Crofton
    What about Trusts? Do we need to send one in for Trusts since they are a legal entity in MD?

    Asking again for inputs from the legal eagle hive mind.

    We may as well send a separate one on behalf of the Trust, coming from the Settlor/Grantor/Trustee on behalf of the Trust and all Trustees therein.
     

    44man

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 19, 2013
    10,129
    southern md
    I sent mine snail mail with signature confirmation

    I am hoping that’s enough

    I did send two emails as soon as the law was passed and got nothing, crickets

    Should I try emailing again?
     

    iH8DemLibz

    When All Else Fails.
    Apr 1, 2013
    25,396
    Libtardistan
    So shouldn’t EVERY Marylander submit this application, whether or not they are a gun owner? I’m sure non gun owners have items that could potentially increase the rate of fire of a weapon such as oil, finger/hand excercisers etc.

    The only folks paying attention to this are on MDS.

    And only a small fraction of MDS members will send this letter in. Overall, I bet no more than 1% of Maryland's gun owners send this letter in.

    It's a GD shame that most gun owners don't give a shyt about the true meaning of the Second Amendment. All they care about is that little slice of the Second Amendment that's sitting in their safe.

    Classic case of IGM.
     

    adit

    ReMember
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 20, 2013
    19,495
    DE
    The only folks paying attention to this are on MDS.

    And only a small fraction of MDS members will send this letter in. Overall, I bet no more than 1% of Maryland's gun owners send this letter in.

    It's a GD shame that most gun owners don't give a shyt about the true meaning of the Second Amendment. All they care about is that little slice of the Second Amendment that's sitting in their safe.

    Classic case of IGM.

    I asked for folks thoughts on this here. https://www.mdshooters.com/showpost.php?p=5328828&postcount=69
     

    ToolAA

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 17, 2016
    10,499
    God's Country
    This is nonsense. You cant prove that you applied and MD cant prove that you didnt.

    A delivery confirmation is not proof of applying for anything. You could of sent them a blank piece of paper.



    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


    It is nonsense and that was the MGA’s intent. However you don’t have to prove that you did apply however the state MUST prove that you DID NOT apply.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     

    Occam

    Not Even ONE Indictment
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 24, 2018
    20,230
    Montgomery County
    This is nonsense. You cant prove that you applied and MD cant prove that you didnt.

    A delivery confirmation is not proof of applying for anything. You could of sent them a blank piece of paper.

    Show a judge your delivery receipt stapled to a copy of the letter you sent, and you're good. No reasonable judge (or juror) is going to figure you happened to have a delivery receipt (to the ATF's street address, right when this was called for!) for some OTHER reason, and then cleverly faked up one of these absurd letters. If that doesn't play as a reasonable indication of having gone through the motions, you've got much bigger problems in court.
     

    Not_an_outlaw

    Ultimate Member
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 26, 2013
    4,679
    Prince Frederick, MD
    This is nonsense. You cant prove that you applied and MD cant prove that you didnt.

    A delivery confirmation is not proof of applying for anything. You could of sent them a blank piece of paper.



    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

    What is your recommendation? Certified return receipt letters are usually good for evidence. So is a sworn statement that you mailed something first class mail. Nothing is perfect. You will also have hundreds who have sent an application at approximately the same time. Proving that you didn't send it would be impossible. You most likely will get something back as well.
     

    DC-W

    Ultimate Member
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 23, 2013
    25,290
    ️‍
    The ATF will return the application to you without action. They have said so.
    https://www.atf.gov/news/pr/maryland-law-restricting-rapid-fire-trigger-activators

    Therefore you will have record that you sent the letter to the ATF via their postage.

    Spread the application far and wide. Anyone who handles a firearm in MD is affected by statute.

    Thanks to all those who have been talking to others about this and sharing the application.
     

    Jake4U

    Now with 67% more FJB
    Sep 1, 2018
    1,148
    The ATF will return the application to you without action. They have said so.
    https://www.atf.gov/news/pr/maryland-law-restricting-rapid-fire-trigger-activators

    Therefore you will have record that you sent the letter to the ATF via their postage.

    Spread the application far and wide. Anyone who handles a firearm in MD is affected by statute.

    Thanks to all those who have been talking to others about this and sharing the application.

    And thanks again to everyone who is engaging this effort. It would be a true and wonderful hoot if this application went viral and it turns into that scene from Miracle on 34th Street: stacks and stacks of mail dumped on the ATF mailroom. Hey, I can dream
     

    TexDefender

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 28, 2017
    1,572
    The only folks paying attention to this are on MDS.

    And only a small fraction of MDS members will send this letter in. Overall, I bet no more than 1% of Maryland's gun owners send this letter in.

    It's a GD shame that most gun owners don't give a shyt about the true meaning of the Second Amendment. All they care about is that little slice of the Second Amendment that's sitting in their safe.

    Classic case of IGM.

    I own nothing that would require me to submit such a letter. You can't submit a letter/application if you don't own what is going to be banned under this law. Let's not be divisive in our fight to over turn this law. I'm sure hoping that when the court date comes, ATF's comment (https://www.atf.gov/news/pr/maryland-law-restricting-rapid-fire-trigger-activators) will be introduced as evidence that the law is not enforceable in whole or in part; that the law in effect is ex posto de facto. Hopefully MSI will be able to use these returned receipts without action to show that such devices are common, an these returned application are but a fragment. That the judges ruling for relieve is being honored at the ATF at least. We don't need to be emotional and play this wisely.
     

    Mark75H

    MD Wear&Carry Instructor
    Industry Partner
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 25, 2011
    17,172
    Outside the Gates
    I own nothing that would require me to submit such a letter. You can't submit a letter/application if you don't own what is going to be banned under this law. Let's not be divisive in our fight to over turn this law. I'm sure hoping that when the court date comes, ATF's comment (https://www.atf.gov/news/pr/maryland-law-restricting-rapid-fire-trigger-activators) will be introduced as evidence that the law is not enforceable in whole or in part; that the law in effect is ex posto de facto. Hopefully MSI will be able to use these returned receipts without action to show that such devices are common, an these returned application are but a fragment. That the judges ruling for relieve is being honored at the ATF at least. We don't need to be emotional and play this wisely.

    Actually you do.

    Reading comprehension is a bitch.
     

    Mr. Ed

    This IS my Happy Face
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 8, 2009
    7,899
    Edgewater
    We're playing chess

    While I agree with TexDefender in principle, right now we don't know how this law will be implemented/enforced. It's impossible to know what our adversaries will do, but we can at least try to block the attack.

    Even though I don't own any devices that are designed to (or would effectively) increase the rate of fire in anything I own, my crystal ball is out of order and I cannot foresee how the folks who are dedicated to wiping private gun ownership out in MD will twist things to their purposes.

    Like the red flag law, this is another unconstitutional legislative overstep that completely negates the concept of innocent until proven guilty, and no matter how things end up in the courts, anybody caught up in the process before things get fixed will bear the burden of playing defensive tackle. I prefer to be on the offensive and take proactive steps to at least stack the deck in my favor as much as possible. BGOS? Damn right I have it. Tempered with a bit of common sense, though. :innocent0

    This is how I envision the forces working against us:

     

    Not_an_outlaw

    Ultimate Member
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 26, 2013
    4,679
    Prince Frederick, MD
    No I do not.

    How do you know that? Are you clairvoyant?

    Let's say this law passes without issue. Next year, some dirt bag uses a night vision scope to kill someone. Then, night vision scopes will be next on the list. It allows you to fire faster by being able to better acquire the target at night. Shall I go on with all the other accessories?

    This process is nothing something some greenhorns made up. This is actually being litigated by professionals. You can always go hire your own attorney who has supreme court experience and see what he/she recommends. Britt may be available.
     

    DC-W

    Ultimate Member
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 23, 2013
    25,290
    ️‍
    Quoted from OP:
    But, here is the rub: The law is so vague that no one knows what it covers. Every gun owner in the state may possess "Rapid Fire Trigger Activator(s), and not even know it. Such "device" includes binary trigger systems, bump stocks, burst trigger systems, a Hellfire Trigger, a trigger crank, or a burst trigger system and copies thereof. But the banned items ALSO includes any "device, including a removable manual or power-driven activating device, constructed so that, when installed in or attached to a firearm: (I) the rate at which the trigger is activated increases; or (II) the rate of fire increases.” Yet, virtually anything you do to your firearm may "increase" the "rate of fire" by some minute amount, including cleaning it. There is no definition for a "device" and the statute includes ALL firearms, not merely semi-automatics. At the hearing, Judge Bredar remarked on the extreme vagueness of the State’s law as he demonstrated how GUN OIL being used to lubricate A BOLT-ACTION RIFLE to "increase" the "rate of fire" of the rifle because the action could be worked more efficiently, meaning the trigger could be manually activated faster than it could before using the GUN OIL. The judge thus warned the State that he had real problems with how vague the statute was. In short, we don't know what is covered by this language covering a "device" that increases the "rate of fire" and neither does the State, the judge or anyone else. The potential for arbitrary enforcement is quite real.



    This affects EVERY gun owner in the State.
     

    TexDefender

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 28, 2017
    1,572
    How do you know that? Are you clairvoyant?

    Let's say this law passes without issue. Next year, some dirt bag uses a night vision scope to kill someone. Then, night vision scopes will be next on the list. It allows you to fire faster by being able to better acquire the target at night. Shall I go on with all the other accessories?

    This process is nothing something some greenhorns made up. This is actually being litigated by professionals. You can always go hire your own attorney who has supreme court experience and see what he/she recommends. Britt may be available.

    I'm not clairvoyant, nor am I paranoid. First off I don't know why I have to justify myself to you or anyone else. But the law has already passed. That is a fact. It becomes effective 1 October 2018. I have read the law, and I have no aftermarket parts that modifies my trigger or triggers at present. The lawsuit, if properly argued and with sufficient facts and data should overturn the law. I have not doubt that the professionals that are litigating this on our behalf will do so. Especially, if Judge Bredar at the hearing, remarked on the extreme vagueness of the State’s law. But you can't submit a letter for something you don't own, nor can you submit such a letter to own something in the future. I would also point out that there is not "official application". So what do you list, everything under the sun? ATF own publicly displayed announcement put even another round in the bandoleer, that the law is extremely flawed. No one is discouraging anyone from sending in an application.
     

    Not_an_outlaw

    Ultimate Member
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 26, 2013
    4,679
    Prince Frederick, MD
    I'm not clairvoyant, nor am I paranoid. First off I don't know why I have to justify myself to you or anyone else. But the law has already passed. That is a fact. It becomes effective 1 October 2018. I have read the law, and I have no aftermarket parts that modifies my trigger or triggers at present. The lawsuit, if properly argued and with sufficient facts and data should overturn the law. I have not doubt that the professionals that are litigating this on our behalf will do so. Especially, if Judge Bredar at the hearing, remarked on the extreme vagueness of the State’s law. But you can't submit a letter for something you don't own, nor can you submit such a letter to own something in the future. I would also point out that there is not "official application". So what do you list, everything under the sun? ATF own publicly displayed announcement put even another round in the bandoleer, that the law is extremely flawed. No one is discouraging anyone from sending in an application.

    You seem to want to justify yourself. Do you know where in FSA2013 in the HQL the requirement lies for the live fire test? It's not in the law. It was actually removed from the passed law. Just because it doesn't match what you think it says doesn't mean it's not there. As a reader of this board you should be aware of the shenanigans of Maryland and the AG. Good smart people have given you recommendations. Either "lead, follow, or get out of the way."

    I can't imagine having clearer direction: A supreme Court litigant and a Federal Judge.
     

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