Open Carry vs Concealed Carry

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  • Open Carry vs Concealed Carry


    • Total voters
      162

    Merlin

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 31, 2009
    3,953
    Carroll County, Maryland
    Let me ask you about that. Because it's a really great subject and worthy of deep thought and discussion.

    Here's my thinking:
    If I "hide" something from the kids, they want to find it. If they do find it they want to "see" (experience) it. They are curious by nature. That's part of being a kid. It's healthy. (Until someone gets shot!)

    If I show it to them from birth. Let them hold it. Teach them that is something they are not to touch when I am not there. That it is dangerous (like so many things = car, stove, matches, electric sockets, knives, scissors, hard baseballs, bats, the street where cars drive, etc, etc, etc) I am thinking the mystery is taken away.

    If my thinking holds, understanding replaces mystery.

    So, they don't run into the street chasing the ball. They don't play with matches. Or stick their fingers in the electric socket, or run with scissors, or throw hard balls in the house, and yes, finally, they don't touch the gun.

    Why?

    Because my job (as their father/parent) is to teach them. What other job do I have? I can't be with them 24 hours a day. All I can do is teach. If I do my job they will learn. And if they learn they will be safe.

    BTW, my father never taught me about guns. I found one when I college age. (A semi auto.) I took it to the back of the house, opened the sliding door, pointed it at the big hill, and pulled the trigger. It didn't fire. I put it back.

    That was stupid of me. (Thank God I pointed it at a big hill. Thank God the safety must have been on, or a rd wasn't chambered. Anyway, thank God it didn't go off!)

    And I was hardly a "child"!!!!! (OK, the house was off in the woods and no neighbors were around! - But it was still a dumb thing to do!)

    If I had been taught would I have acted so stupidly? Would I do that today? Would you?

    Why wouldn't we? - Because we were taught!

    That's just my thought. I don't claim to know it all.

    It's only the beginning, of what I think should be a major (and very important) discussion.


    I can add that all kids are different. When I was 7-8 my dad carried. Each day when he came home from work he took off his gun and set it on the table. He showed it to me and then I was told it was NOT mine to touch. I was the kind of kid that listen to that.

    Not all kids are like that. Maybe because they have always had parents that hid everything from them because that was easier for them instead of the required puritanism that would come...or should come with not listening to that instruction.

    All to many parents do not want to ever punish there kids anymore. The just want to be their friends.
     

    rooster

    Rebel looking for a cause
    Aug 1, 2010
    141
    Eldersburg, MD
    I thought brandishing meant to display a firearm in a threading manner?

    For example I did not think that standing in line at your local Home Depot while OC was brandishing. But during an argument with some one if you were to move your coat aside to display your gun to make a point is considered brandishing?

    MJD438 said below; "Coworker of mine lives in Houston and carries daily. They are incredibly serious - concealed means concealed, not a single flash or unintentional print. If anyone can see any portion of the firearm and reports to the police, you will get a visit and lose your permit, according to conversations with him."

    This word: "brandish" is a dangerous word to claim you know the meaning of. It's not like the definition is written in stone. Especially with people being so damn sensitive.

    I can just see it: Your guns prints through your pants or the grip sticks out of your belt. Some mother with her brat kid claims you "brandished" your gun and scared her little brat.

    And, only because she got a brat with her (she's a "MOTHER with her CHILD"!) you find yourself in the middle of a shit storm. - That should make your day!
     

    MJD438

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 28, 2012
    5,845
    Somewhere in MD
    MJD438 said below; "Coworker of mine lives in Houston and carries daily. They are incredibly serious - concealed means concealed, not a single flash or unintentional print. If anyone can see any portion of the firearm and reports to the police, you will get a visit and lose your permit, according to conversations with him."

    This word: "brandish" is a dangerous word to claim you know the meaning of. It's not like the definition is written in stone. Especially with people being so damn sensitive.

    I can just see it: Your guns prints through your pants or the grip sticks out of your belt. Some mother with her brat kid claims you "brandished" your gun and scared her little brat.

    And, only because she got a brat with her (she's a "MOTHER with her CHILD"!) you find yourself in the middle of a shit storm. - That should make your day!
    IANAL - I just did a quick search of the Maryland Code (both statutes and COMAR) and did not find a single instance of a definition for the word "brandish" using the Lexis-Nexis advanced search tool (statutes) and the COMAR search tool.
     

    rooster

    Rebel looking for a cause
    Aug 1, 2010
    141
    Eldersburg, MD
    IANAL - I just did a quick search of the Maryland Code (both statutes and COMAR) and did not find a single instance of a definition for the word "brandish" using the Lexis-Nexis advanced search tool (statutes) and the COMAR search tool.

    Alas! And there in lies the problem! A word without a meaning!

    Who said; "I don't know the definition of smut. But I know it when I see it."
     

    MJD438

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 28, 2012
    5,845
    Somewhere in MD
    IANAL - I just did a quick search of the Maryland Code (both statutes and COMAR) and did not find a single instance of a definition for the word "brandish" using the Lexis-Nexis advanced search tool (statutes) and the COMAR search tool.

    Neither tool could find a single mention of the word, in addition to the lack of a definition...
     

    rooster

    Rebel looking for a cause
    Aug 1, 2010
    141
    Eldersburg, MD
    Neither tool could find a single mention of the word, in addition to the lack of a definition...

    Regulations Issued by Superintendent, Maryland State Police Pursuant to Chapter 13, Acts of 1972 - Handgun Permits

    1. The following shall constitute cause for revocation of a permit.

    A. Any indiscriminate display of a handgun and/or behavior by the permit holder which would result in undue apprehension of existing danger by the general public while wearing, carrying or transporting a handgun.

    There's some words for you!
     

    MJD438

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 28, 2012
    5,845
    Somewhere in MD
    Regulations Issued by Superintendent, Maryland State Police Pursuant to Chapter 13, Acts of 1972 - Handgun Permits

    1. The following shall constitute cause for revocation of a permit.

    A. Any indiscriminate display of a handgun and/or behavior by the permit holder which would result in undue apprehension of existing danger by the general public while wearing, carrying or transporting a handgun.

    There's some words for you!

    Gotta love the bald-faced run around the fact that the statute makes no legal differentiation between open and concealed carry..."I saw a gun and was in fear"=permit revoked.
     

    gamer_jim

    Podcaster
    Feb 12, 2008
    13,180
    Hanover, PA
    Several years ago the Portland Maine police chief tried to charge an OC'er with brandishing. Courts threw it out and in doing so defined more clearly what brandishing means in ME.
     

    rooster

    Rebel looking for a cause
    Aug 1, 2010
    141
    Eldersburg, MD
    Gotta love the bald-faced run around the fact that the statute makes no legal differentiation between open and concealed carry..."I saw a gun and was in fear"=permit revoked.

    Welcome to the new world.

    We're the US government!

    We can make up words and give them any meaning we want at any moment! We can change the meaning of any word to fit our mood at the moment.

    We're the US government, and we can do any damn thing we want!

    And you, "The People", can go pound sand!
     

    chad2

    Active Member
    Mar 26, 2011
    629
    Let me ask you about that. Because it's a really great subject and worthy of deep thought and discussion.

    Here's my thinking:
    If I "hide" something from the kids, they want to find it. If they do find it they want to "see" (experience) it. They are curious by nature. That's part of being a kid. It's healthy. (Until someone gets shot!)

    If I show it to them from birth. Let them hold it. Teach them that is something they are not to touch when I am not there. That it is dangerous (like so many things = car, stove, matches, electric sockets, knives, scissors, hard baseballs, bats, the street where cars drive, etc, etc, etc) I am thinking the mystery is taken away.

    If my thinking holds, understanding replaces mystery.

    So, they don't run into the street chasing the ball. They don't play with matches. Or stick their fingers in the electric socket, or run with scissors, or throw hard balls in the house, and yes, finally, they don't touch the gun.

    Why?

    Because my job (as their father/parent) is to teach them. What other job do I have? I can't be with them 24 hours a day. All I can do is teach. If I do my job they will learn. And if they learn they will be safe.

    BTW, my father never taught me about guns. I found one when I college age. (A semi auto.) I took it to the back of the house, opened the sliding door, pointed it at the big hill, and pulled the trigger. It didn't fire. I put it back.

    That was stupid of me. (Thank God I pointed it at a big hill. Thank God the safety must have been on, or a rd wasn't chambered. Anyway, thank God it didn't go off!)

    And I was hardly a "child"!!!!! (OK, the house was off in the woods and no neighbors were around! - But it was still a dumb thing to do!)

    If I had been taught would I have acted so stupidly? Would I do that today? Would you?

    Why wouldn't we? - Because we were taught!

    That's just my thought. I don't claim to know it all.

    It's only the beginning, of what I think should be a major (and very important) discussion.

    Yes i agree with this completely but when i had kids i reallized that at the right age this can be started. When they start asking what i am cleaning is when i feel they are old enough to understand what i am about to explain to them. And for me and my brothers that was around 5 so i think that is a good age to start. :-)
     

    rooster

    Rebel looking for a cause
    Aug 1, 2010
    141
    Eldersburg, MD
    I can add that all kids are different. When I was 7-8 my dad carried. Each day when he came home from work he took off his gun and set it on the table. He showed it to me and then I was told it was NOT mine to touch. I was the kind of kid that listen to that.

    Not all kids are like that. Maybe because they have always had parents that hid everything from them because that was easier for them instead of the required puritanism that would come...or should come with not listening to that instruction.

    All to many parents do not want to ever punish there kids anymore. The just want to be their friends.

    I think you have something there.

    Today the children raise the parents.

    Parents want to be their kid's "friend."

    Well, I don't want to be their enemy! But I'm not their friend! I'm their parent! I "tell" them. I teach them. I instruct them. I'm the parent. Is that a dirty word today?

    Makes me remember when my first was born. Great kid. Never cried without a reason. (hungry, diaper, etc)

    I'd talk to her just like I'm writing here - from the time she was born!

    Of course I knew she couldn't understand me... Until she did!

    I taught her straight away that stuff on any table was not to be touched. She couldn't even walk! Teach them young!

    She would grab and I'd explain, in these very words, that stuff on the table is not to be touched.

    This went on. And she learned! By God she learned! Didn't have to beat it into her! Just be consistent!

    One time, we went to a friend's house. They had fine expensive stuff on the tables. My kid was just able to pull herself up, but couldn't really walk without holding on.

    The friend said she would clear the expensive stuff from the table so my kid wouldn't grab something and/or knock it off.

    I told her don't worry. The kid won't touch it! Everyone watched as my kid walked around the tables. Didn't touch a single thing! The people were amazed. (I wasn't!)

    Then, my kid took the hand of a friend and began pulling it toward a jar of colorful wrapped candies. We all wondered what's up.

    You got it! She knew she couldn't touch anything, so she figured out how to get a grown up to touch it (get it) for her!

    Tell me that's not smart?

    But that doesn't just happen! It took a lot of work! A lot of consistency. A lot of what we used to call parenting!

    BTW - That was 30+ years ago. People don't think like that anymore.

    Rather, let the kid scream in the restaurant, or run around, or be an animal!

    I can't stand it!

    I wasn't into guns back then. - But, just maybe, I'd teach that from the get go too? Teach them before even they can understand. They'll catch on.

    Better they catch on sooner than later?
     

    Safetech

    I open big metal boxes
    May 28, 2011
    4,454
    Dundock
    bran·dish   /ˈbrændɪʃ/ Show Spelled[bran-dish] Show IPA
    verb (used with object)
    1. to shake or wave, as a weapon; flourish: Brandishing his sword, he rode into battle.

    noun
    2. a flourish or waving, as of a weapon.



    1. (v.t.) brandish
    to shake, wave, or display, esp. threateningly or ostentatiously, as a weapon; flourish.

    FWIW

    In my (extremely limited) experience in writing legislation (wrote the original Locksmith Licensing bill that passed the Senate and was killed in the house in the mid 90s), the general rule is: if you don't define a term specifically in the law, then the term's generally accepted definition (what the dictionary says) is how it is to be interpreted in the law.
     

    chad2

    Active Member
    Mar 26, 2011
    629
    I think you have something there.

    Today the children raise the parents.

    Parents want to be their kid's "friend."

    Well, I don't want to be their enemy! But I'm not their friend! I'm their parent! I "tell" them. I teach them. I instruct them. I'm the parent. Is that a dirty word today?

    Makes me remember when my first was born. Great kid. Never cried without a reason. (hungry, diaper, etc)

    I'd talk to her just like I'm writing here - from the time she was born!

    Of course I knew she couldn't understand me... Until she did!

    I taught her straight away that stuff on any table was not to be touched. She couldn't even walk! Teach them young!

    She would grab and I'd explain, in these very words, that stuff on the table is not to be touched.

    This went on. And she learned! By God she learned! Didn't have to beat it into her! Just be consistent!

    One time, we went to a friend's house. They had fine expensive stuff on the tables. My kid was just able to pull herself up, but couldn't really walk without holding on.

    The friend said she would clear the expensive stuff from the table so my kid wouldn't grab something and/or knock it off.

    I told her don't worry. The kid won't touch it! Everyone watched as my kid walked around the tables. Didn't touch a single thing! The people were amazed. (I wasn't!)

    Then, my kid took the hand of a friend and began pulling it toward a jar of colorful wrapped candies. We all wondered what's up.

    You got it! She knew she couldn't touch anything, so she figured out how to get a grown up to touch it (get it) for her!

    Tell me that's not smart?

    But that doesn't just happen! It took a lot of work! A lot of consistency. A lot of what we used to call parenting!

    BTW - That was 30+ years ago. People don't think like that anymore.

    Rather, let the kid scream in the restaurant, or run around, or be an animal!

    I can't stand it!

    I wasn't into guns back then. - But, just maybe, I'd teach that from the get go too? Teach them before even they can understand. They'll catch on.

    Better they catch on sooner than later?

    I know what you guys mean you see it all the time at walmart lol but i think a lot of these parents are afraid to punish or spank there kids in public or at all anymore in fear that someone will call the police on them for abuse. Now me i dont care i will spank my kid in public i will make him stand in time out in public what ever it takes. The way i look at it is if my kid is acting up in public i should not wait and punish them because then they know that they can get away with it. That is not the case with me. I agree parents are guidance conselers not friends. A friend will follow you down the wrong path a parents will show you the right path. Or should show you lol
     

    Merlin

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 31, 2009
    3,953
    Carroll County, Maryland
    MJD438 said below; "Coworker of mine lives in Houston and carries daily. They are incredibly serious - concealed means concealed, not a single flash or unintentional print. If anyone can see any portion of the firearm and reports to the police, you will get a visit and lose your permit, according to conversations with him."

    This word: "brandish" is a dangerous word to claim you know the meaning of. It's not like the definition is written in stone. Especially with people being so damn sensitive.

    I can just see it: Your guns prints through your pants or the grip sticks out of your belt. Some mother with her brat kid claims you "brandished" your gun and scared her little brat.

    And, only because she got a brat with her (she's a "MOTHER with her CHILD"!) you find yourself in the middle of a shit storm. - That should make your day!


    Well I bet that is what can happen. But you know how people are. If we were an OC state you can have some crazy lady with her crazy kid that will say you pulled your gun what you haven't just because they do not like guns.

    The PROS about CC or OC is you can defend your self from violence.

    The CONS about CC OC is you can open yourself up to many other things that you may find the need to hire an attorney to protect your self in a different way.
     

    Merlin

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 31, 2009
    3,953
    Carroll County, Maryland
    IANAL - I just did a quick search of the Maryland Code (both statutes and COMAR) and did not find a single instance of a definition for the word "brandish" using the Lexis-Nexis advanced search tool (statutes) and the COMAR search tool.

    See, that very much like the "We know it when we see it", the MSP are known for. If something happens where someone drops a dime on you, First it will depend if the LEO that shows is a reasonable person.

    Second, the outcome will depend on whether the LEO is pro gun or anti gun. If their pro gun, they will listen to reason and get to the truth. If the LEO is anti gun, it will not matter what you say they will want to believe whoever is pointing the finger at you and will be happy to make an example out of you.
     

    Merlin

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 31, 2009
    3,953
    Carroll County, Maryland
    I think you have something there.

    Today the children raise the parents.

    Parents want to be their kid's "friend."

    Well, I don't want to be their enemy! But I'm not their friend! I'm their parent! I "tell" them. I teach them. I instruct them. I'm the parent. Is that a dirty word today?

    Makes me remember when my first was born. Great kid. Never cried without a reason. (hungry, diaper, etc)

    I'd talk to her just like I'm writing here - from the time she was born!

    Of course I knew she couldn't understand me... Until she did!

    I taught her straight away that stuff on any table was not to be touched. She couldn't even walk! Teach them young!

    She would grab and I'd explain, in these very words, that stuff on the table is not to be touched.

    This went on. And she learned! By God she learned! Didn't have to beat it into her! Just be consistent!

    One time, we went to a friend's house. They had fine expensive stuff on the tables. My kid was just able to pull herself up, but couldn't really walk without holding on.

    The friend said she would clear the expensive stuff from the table so my kid wouldn't grab something and/or knock it off.

    I told her don't worry. The kid won't touch it! Everyone watched as my kid walked around the tables. Didn't touch a single thing! The people were amazed. (I wasn't!)

    Then, my kid took the hand of a friend and began pulling it toward a jar of colorful wrapped candies. We all wondered what's up.

    You got it! She knew she couldn't touch anything, so she figured out how to get a grown up to touch it (get it) for her!

    Tell me that's not smart?

    But that doesn't just happen! It took a lot of work! A lot of consistency. A lot of what we used to call parenting!

    BTW - That was 30+ years ago. People don't think like that anymore.

    Rather, let the kid scream in the restaurant, or run around, or be an animal!

    I can't stand it!

    I wasn't into guns back then. - But, just maybe, I'd teach that from the get go too? Teach them before even they can understand. They'll catch on.

    Better they catch on sooner than later?

    You sound like a very good parent. And remember, if your kid does not hate you at least once in their life, your not doing you job.

    I have seen it all to. kids running around a restaurant with the parents acting as if the kids are invisible and they are just a couple out on the town without kids.

    R rated movies with the parents of I want to say a 6 year old running all around the theater yelling to her parents if they can see her as she runs hear or their. When the lights went down so the movie could start do you think they stopped the kid from doing it? NOOOOOOOOOOOO!

    They just slid down in their seats and acted as if they did not know who the child belonged to either.

    The fact that we now seem to also be in a world where the parent feel kids have to be entertained 24/7 is not helping the kids deal with life either. Some parents will not make their kids ride in a car unless they have it set up so they can watch movies everywhere they go.
     

    Merlin

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 31, 2009
    3,953
    Carroll County, Maryland
    Welcome to the new world.

    We're the US government!

    We can make up words and give them any meaning we want at any moment! We can change the meaning of any word to fit our mood at the moment.

    We're the US government, and we can do any damn thing we want!

    And you, "The People", can go pound sand!


    What I think will be a very big problem for I want to say 5 years after we can get CCW's is Some LEO's that want to make examples out of people as they try to show what a bad idea it was to become a Shall Issue state. Now not all LEO's are like that. All the ones I'm friends with tell me that can't wait for Maryland to become a Shall Issue state. They feel crime will drop if many people a carrying. They are smart enough to know the only people that listen to guns laws are the people they do not have to worry about in the first place.

    But they all do not feel that way. And the ones that don't, Well you better look out for.
     

    rooster

    Rebel looking for a cause
    Aug 1, 2010
    141
    Eldersburg, MD
    Well I bet that is what can happen. But you know how people are. If we were an OC state you can have some crazy lady with her crazy kid that will say you pulled your gun what you haven't just because they do not like guns.

    The PROS about CC or OC is you can defend your self from violence.

    The CONS about CC OC is you can open yourself up to many other things that you may find the need to hire an attorney to protect your self in a different way.

    DAMN IT! - You hit the nail on the head! Damn it again!

    Liars, cheats, and thieves! All around us!

    And I haven't mentioned the politicians yet!
     

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