Should I Clean Up My Swiss 96/11? How?

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  • Derwood

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 2, 2011
    1,075
    DC area
    Over the weekend I picked up a fine example of Swiss craftsmanship: a Model 96/11 that seems to be a pretty good specimen.

    The tag on it said manufactured in 1900 (I suppose based on the serial number). I picked it because it was the oldest rifle on the table-- and the bore looked good. Of course, I got a bayonet to go with it!

    I had honestly never seen one of these before. But I know the Swiss make nice machines so I made an impulse purchase!

    I've never really tried to "restore" or "clean up" a gun before. This rifle seems to have so much potential. I took it out on Sunday and it's sights are still right on after 120 years and I love the straight pull bolt.

    This rifle has a huge amount of grime on it and judging by the smell, some cosmoline residue as well. I'd like to do some sort of simple restoration on it. Two questions for anyone in the know:

    Will I destroy the value of the gun if I clean it up?
    ---Are these even really collectible? It was only $285. Doesn't seem collectible but I suppose it is now the oldest thing I own.

    What would you suggest I do to clean it up?
    ---I was thinking of just working denatured alcohol over the wood and using Hoppes #9 and steel wool on the metal. Maybe a little light sanding of the wood? Is this a good method? (I saw a Midway USA video where Larry cleans up an old rifle with this method). There are normal wear/tear/bumps all over the wood and one spot where it looks like someone carved some initials. I'm not a gunsmith. I'm not talking about re-bluing or anything that would cost me more than a pint of chemical cleaner. I really like this rifle and want it to look and feel clean.

    Thanks!!!!!!!!
     

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    MacGuns

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 14, 2013
    1,899
    Damascus
    You have a great example of a 96/11 and $285 with a bayonet is a great price. You stole that thing.

    Now when you say clean it up, that is much different than what you are suggesting. You are talking about a restoration. Any restoration is going to devalue the rifle, not increase its value. It's your rifle, but I would say no steel wool and no sanding.

    Yes you should give it a good cleaning to remove the old grease from the action and bore (most likely the Swiss grease called Automatenfett or Waffenfette.) Pick up a case of GP11 when they are available and go out and shoot it.
     

    MilsurpDan

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 1, 2012
    2,217
    Frederick County
    Glad to see you’re enjoying it. It looks fine to me. I’d just give the metal a little wipe down with some CLP/ballistol or some other kind of gun oil. Maybe if you have a couple minor rust spots some fine bronze wool and Kroil will remove it without damaging it.

    It’s still got great collector value even if it was cheaper than what Mosins were going for at the show.

    Any kind of sanding/refinishing will ruin its collectability/value. The bumps and bruises give it character.
     

    Red1917

    Active Member
    Apr 13, 2017
    665
    Anne Arundel County
    The stock doesn't look too bad from the pictures, I definitely wouldn't take any steel wool or sandpaper to it, that will certainly devalue it from a collectors standpoint. I'll second the advice above. Great gun for the price
     

    Combloc

    Stop Negassing me!!!!!
    Nov 10, 2010
    7,212
    In a House
    I've been working with Swiss firearms for many years now. Use NOTHING abrasive. No sandpaper, no steel wool.....NOTHING. If you must do anything, CAREFULLY disassemble the wood from the steel and set the wood aside. Clean the metal using only Hoppe's #9 or, if very greasy or gunky, Gumout brand carb cleaner. DO NOT get the carb cleaner on the phenolic charging knob. After cleaning, use Swiss Automatenfett on the internal parts. Reassemble the rifle. Wipe the steel down with either CLP or Eezox ONLY. Use only Howard's Feed and Wax on the wood and only after assembly. I've been doing things this way for literally decades and it works without fail. Any other method is risking an increasingly rare Historical artifact.
     

    Combloc

    Stop Negassing me!!!!!
    Nov 10, 2010
    7,212
    In a House
    Glad to see you’re enjoying it. It looks fine to me. I’d just give the metal a little wipe down with some CLP/ballistol or some other kind of gun oil. Maybe if you have a couple minor rust spots some fine bronze wool and Kroil will remove it without damaging it.

    It’s still got great collector value even if it was cheaper than what Mosins were going for at the show.

    Any kind of sanding/refinishing will ruin its collectability/value. The bumps and bruises give it character.

    This is also sound advise.
     

    Combloc

    Stop Negassing me!!!!!
    Nov 10, 2010
    7,212
    In a House
    I notice that you mention Larry Potterfield. I have nothing but respect for him but, judging from what I have seen of his videos, I would never follow any advice he gives regarding preserving an old firearm.
     

    Melnic

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    15,282
    HoCo
    I would have purchased that if I saw it!
    Nice.
    +1 on the suggestions. Clean only, do not try to "restore".
    You could clean the bore, and dissassemble and clean the bolt. I bet it does not need much more than that.
    Be careful with the brown knob on the bolt handle. Those can break and many of the WWI era swiss rifles have cracked or broken ones. I personally would not even remove it from the bolt.

    Is the Bayo matching the gun?
    Where is the import mark?
    Any stampings on that sling you can post pics of?
     

    Threeband

    The M1 Does My Talking
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 30, 2006
    25,232
    Carroll County
    That is a beautiful rifle, and you got a good price even without the bayonet.

    Check under the buttplate to see if it still has its troop tag, the tag with the previous owner's name and town.

    Frankly, it looks so good I wonder if someone else hasn't already cleaned it up. The stock looks like it may have been stripped and re-oiled, it looks so good. If you post close up pictures of the finger grooves and of the tang/wrist area with the bolt closed we can see if it's been sanded or not.

    Even if it turns out a previous owner did sand and re-oil, I still think $285 is a decent price, and it's a wonderful rifle.

    Here's my 1915 G11, by the way. You'll see the stock is a bit more worn than yours.
     

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    Derwood

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 2, 2011
    1,075
    DC area
    Thanks for the input you guys! Ok, no sanding or steel wool the. Glad I asked first.

    https://youtu.be/jfcUwMWxJ2U

    —this is the midway video I referenced. He doesn’t use sandpaper but does use steel wool.

    I’m a balistol fan and already used that to clean the bore after shooting. So I’ll just stick to that product for cleaning.

    I’ll post some close up pictures of all the interesting marks shortly.

    To clarify—I got the rifle for $285 and he bayonet for $60. The bayonet isn’t a match but the rifle components all have the same serial numbers.
     

    Derwood

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 2, 2011
    1,075
    DC area
    Close up photos. I just covered a few digits of the serial number. All numbers match. Think it's a good idea to remove the butt plate to check that troop number? I removed the butt plate from my mosin and had a hell of a time getting it back on.
     

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    Derwood

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 2, 2011
    1,075
    DC area
    Let me know if any other pictures would be helpful.

    OK, so I'm not going to do anything to it other than a good wipe down with some Balistol and I guess I won't even disassemble the bolt (even though I love taking apart guns and putting them back together).

    Any other suggestions for caring for it other than keeping it clean and dry in my safe when I'm not using it? (It's OK to shoot it from time to time, right? :)

    Also - any tips on getting this weird ammo? I was able to get four boxes when I got the rifle but it seems like it's somewhat rare. I saved the brass just in case.

    I love reading about old rifles, by the way. So if you want to point me to a good resource on these, you can trust I'll take the time to read it all. Thanks again for all the helpful information so far! This thing is awesome!
     

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    Threeband

    The M1 Does My Talking
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 30, 2006
    25,232
    Carroll County
    What a beautiful rifle!

    I don't think it's been sanded or refinished, now that I see those pictures. $285 is a good price, too.

    These rifles increase in value, unlike AR 15s.
     

    Threeband

    The M1 Does My Talking
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 30, 2006
    25,232
    Carroll County
    Melnic asked about the import mark and sling marks.

    You should shoot it a lot. It's a fine rifle. Not sure about GP11 these days. Grab it when you can. The cases are berdan primed, so they are difficult but not quite impossible to reload. The hardest part would be finding the correct primers.

    Do you know Swissrifles.com? They have a forum, too. People there know about the Switzers.
     

    Alphabrew

    Binary male Lesbian
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 27, 2013
    40,749
    Woodbine
    The “P” means that it was transferred from the Swiss military to a private citizen, most likely the soldier it was issued to got to keep when he left the military.
     

    hchon3

    Active Member
    Aug 8, 2017
    133
    Good looking rifle and great price!!! I just got a k31 with matching bayonet but no where near what you paid for yours.
     

    Abulg1972

    Ultimate Member
    Considering the fact that Swiss rifles have become scarce and Simpson has recently sold several IG96/11s for $550, I'd say that your rifle is valuable and collectible.

    There is no reason to wipe the stock down with anything. Just use a dry rag. Anything more than that will likely reduce its value. You can take the barreled action out of the stock and clean the metal with your typical gun cleaner (I prefer Gunzilla) to remove any grease and grime. You should definitely pull the butt plate off to see if there's a tag under there. It's very easy to do. Doing so will also show you (hopefully) when the stock was made because the month and year were stamped on the end of the butt.

    P.S. No one is going to do anything with your serial number. They aren’t like private parts.
     
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    j8064

    Garrett Co Hooligan #1
    Feb 23, 2008
    11,635
    Deep Creek
    OP, you "stole" a beautiful rifle. As others have said don't molest it with aggressive cleaning. A simple wipe down and some CLP on the metal is all you need.

    96/11's can be fine shooters. I reload for mine so ammo availability is not an issue. Reloading can be tricky because of the short throats in some rifles. 7.5x55 takes .308 bullets but finding the right profile and ogive your rifle likes is the key.

    Here's one of my Hooligan friends shooting my 96/11. I paid a lot less than you paid for yours, but that was about 25 years ago. Unfortunately the previous owner refinished the stock so it has no collector value. Still, it's a pretty rifle and a great shooter.

    Enjoy yours!

    :thumbsup:
     

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    rseymorejr

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 28, 2011
    26,010
    Harford County
    Other than cleaning up the metal with fine stainless steel wool and oil and cleaning all the cosmoline out of the action, I think I'd maybe pull any bad dents from the stock with a damp cloth and an iron
     

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