Draw and Fire timing?

pilot25 · Sep 27, 2018

What is a "good" time to try for when you draw and fire, at the buzzer, 10 yards, aiming at center of the IDPA target?

I cannot get below 1.8 seconds and then I'm not sure I'm hitting the target. I can do 2 seconds and hit the "down 0" area each time. Seems slow compared to others I have watched at matches. Not sure how to get faster.

Racinready300ex · Sep 27, 2018

Is this with a IDPA vest? I don't work with a vest enough to give good numbers. W/O a vest I'd say around 1 second is reasonable in practice. At a match you might be off that pace, you'll be fine in the 1.2-1.3 range IMO. One note, I typically don't practice a draw to one shot. I'd at least make it a draw to two shots. #reasons Then look to see what your 1st shot was.

You can master the draw in dry fire, do just a draw to sight picture. Do NOT pull the trigger (important). Use a timer with a par time setting and work down until you can get a .6-.8 to a sight picture. At some point you may have to just go faster, even if it means you don't see your sight. You could even draw and aim at a blank white wall with out a target. The goal being just learn what it feels like to get the gun out that fast. Get used to that feeling, then add the target back in and try to get a sight picture while still maintaining that speed.

Then go live fire. Look for problems in live fire, then go back to dry fire and work them out. You can also move into 5 or 7 yards in live fire to help get the speed up. (even take the target away again)

I managed a .98 turn and draw at 10 yards in practice last week.

BigT5g · Sep 27, 2018

Racinready300ex said:
Is this with a IDPA vest? I don't work with a vest enough to give good numbers. W/O a vest I'd say around 1 second is reasonable in practice. At a match you might be off that pace, you'll be fine in the 1.2-1.3 range IMO. One note, I typically don't practice a draw to one shot. I'd at least make it a draw to two shots. #reasons Then look to see what your 1st shot was.

You can master the draw in dry fire, do just a draw to sight picture. Do NOT pull the trigger (important). Use a timer with a par time setting and work down until you can get a .6-.8 to a sight picture. At some point you may have to just go faster, even if it means you don't see your sight. You could even draw and aim at a blank white wall with out a target. The goal being just learn what it feels like to get the gun out that fast. Get used to that feeling, then add the target back in and try to get a sight picture while still maintaining that speed.

Then go live fire. Look for problems in live fire, then go back to dry fire and work them out. You can also move into 5 or 7 yards in live fire to help get the speed up. (even take the target away again)

I managed a .98 turn and draw at 10 yards in practice last week.

this.

BigT5g · Sep 27, 2018

if you post a video of your draw, I have no doubt we can help you shave a few tenths off in a short time with just a little work

photoracer · Sep 27, 2018

I can do somewhere between 1.15s-1.45s drawing generally and get a first round hit every time. I used to be about a class B in USPSA Open division at that speed and about the same in Steel Challenge Open. I don't currently practice drawing much as I spend most times shooting rimfire and PCC in matches these days. I plan on going back to shooting more centerfire pistol in 2019.
I trained with Max Michel and we timed him at 0.70s with a hit every time. I have seen him go below that a few times. The kid who initially trained me was Robby Orent and he could go below 1 second easily as a junior shooter. I think he was trained primarily by Todd Jarrett.
Most pros practice drawing as a side exercise. Its something you can do in the living room while watching TV. I think Julie Golob says her practice regimen is 100 draws per day, and the same with mag changes and other aspects that don't require shots being fired. There is a Youtube video out there somewhere showing Robby Orent doing mag changes and he is among the fastest I have seen (as in 1 second or less).

davsco · Sep 27, 2018

we should all practice every aspect of 'shooting,' but the biggest bang for the buck is improving one's movement/stage planning as that is generally where most of the time is spent, vs actually shooting, reloading and drawing.

pilot25 · Sep 27, 2018

davsco said:
we should all practice every aspect of 'shooting,' but the biggest bang for the buck is improving one's movement/stage planning as that is generally where most of the time is spent, vs actually shooting, reloading and drawing.

True but that is difficult to practice at home.

pilot25 · Sep 27, 2018

Racinready300ex said:
Is this with a IDPA vest? I don't work with a vest enough to give good numbers. W/O a vest I'd say around 1 second is reasonable in practice. At a match you might be off that pace, you'll be fine in the 1.2-1.3 range IMO. One note, I typically don't practice a draw to one shot. I'd at least make it a draw to two shots. #reasons Then look to see what your 1st shot was.

You can master the draw in dry fire, do just a draw to sight picture. Do NOT pull the trigger (important). Use a timer with a par time setting and work down until you can get a .6-.8 to a sight picture. At some point you may have to just go faster, even if it means you don't see your sight. You could even draw and aim at a blank white wall with out a target. The goal being just learn what it feels like to get the gun out that fast. Get used to that feeling, then add the target back in and try to get a sight picture while still maintaining that speed.

Then go live fire. Look for problems in live fire, then go back to dry fire and work them out. You can also move into 5 or 7 yards in live fire to help get the speed up. (even take the target away again)

I managed a .98 turn and draw at 10 yards in practice last week.

Thanks. I'm pulling the trigger on each dry fire so I'll just raise to sight picture and take incremental steps instead of the whole motion at once. Great idea.

I did 400 rounds of just draw and fire at the range the other day. I'm glad to say 90% of my shots were good. My trigger discipline has gotten much better in that respect. But out of the 400 only a handful were under 2 seconds. Reading Ben Stoeger's book I need to shoot for .7 seconds. I just can't figure out how to get faster. Maybe this new approach will help.

Racinready300ex · Sep 28, 2018

pilot25 said:
Thanks. I'm pulling the trigger on each dry fire so I'll just raise to sight picture and take incremental steps instead of the whole motion at once. Great idea.

I did 400 rounds of just draw and fire at the range the other day. I'm glad to say 90% of my shots were good. My trigger discipline has gotten much better in that respect. But out of the 400 only a handful were under 2 seconds. Reading Ben Stoeger's book I need to shoot for .7 seconds. I just can't figure out how to get faster. Maybe this new approach will help.

Where are you located?

Like BigT said if you post a short video of some of your draws we may be able to spot something.

ironpony · Sep 28, 2018

I guess its time to get that shot timer. I'm finding myself hitting the target before actually getting a sight picture(10 yds), not sure if that is good or bad, but they are good hits.

Moorvogi · Sep 28, 2018

those are some good tips and amazing times. i assume this is open cary/holster not a conceal carry. The other day i was doing conceal draw zero stop drills (mozambique [ 2 chest, 1 head]) and couldn't get under 3 seconds. take the conceal out of the way and it's easily another second off the clock though. i wonder what 1 second is like. The draws from holster to first shot fired was typically 0.9-1.3 seconds.

i like these drills/practice though!

nedsurf · Sep 28, 2018

Side thought... Might as well incorporate stepping off line (taking a step right or left) into your muscle memory while you are doing lots of draw reps.

Racinready300ex · Sep 28, 2018

Moorvogi said:
those are some good tips and amazing times. i assume this is open cary/holster not a conceal carry. The other day i was doing conceal draw zero stop drills (mozambique [ 2 chest, 1 head]) and couldn't get under 3 seconds. take the conceal out of the way and it's easily another second off the clock though. i wonder what 1 second is like. The draws from holster to first shot fired was typically 0.9-1.3 seconds.

i like these drills/practice though!

See if you can find some info on a dude named Gabe White, he's made Master in USPSA Limited shooting minor, concealed from a AIWB holster. I hear he has a mean draw.

kenpo333 · Sep 28, 2018

This is what I work on with a .6 draw and
5yrds - .20 split - 95% alphas
10yrds - .22 split - 90% alphas
15yrds - .25 split - 85% alphas
20yrds - .30 split - 75% alphas
25yrds - .35 split - 65% alphas

photoracer · Sep 28, 2018

pilot25 said:
Thanks. I'm pulling the trigger on each dry fire so I'll just raise to sight picture and take incremental steps instead of the whole motion at once. Great idea.

I did 400 rounds of just draw and fire at the range the other day. I'm glad to say 90% of my shots were good. My trigger discipline has gotten much better in that respect. But out of the 400 only a handful were under 2 seconds. Reading Ben Stoeger's book I need to shoot for .7 seconds. I just can't figure out how to get faster. Maybe this new approach will help.

A shot timer is the #1 training tool for speed shooting. However there are phones apps that can turn your phone into a shot timer on the cheap:
IPSC Shot Timer
Shot Recorder
Shot Timer

As to what to practice, while stage planning is important that can only be gained from match experience. Breaking down a stage requires that you understand what you can do and apply that to what you see at the match. And you can only do that well when you have the basics down pat. One thing Robby told me early on was to practice at 100% speed but shoot the match at about 80%. In other words don't try to shoot a match at a level beyond what you can physically do. Let the other guys screw up. You just shoot at your can't miss speed. As your practice gets faster your match speed will get faster. Physical training is a must also. Unfortunately for me I didn't take up USPSA until I was already having knee issues. My shooting was good as I could often get into the 80% range in some stages like classifiers and ones that did not have much movement. But anything that did dropped me way down. Hopefully maybe next year as I have one knee fully replaced now so might go back to 3-gun also. All depends on how my personal training goes over the winter. Not supposed to try running until November.

pilot25 · Sep 28, 2018

I probably want to work my way up to practicing those other things but just hitting the basics now. Magazine changes and drawing faster.

I use the blue timer I see at many matches. Not sure the manufacture. Helps a lot.

photoracer said:
A shot timer is the #1 training tool for speed shooting. However there are phones apps that can turn your phone into a shot timer on the cheap:
IPSC Shot Timer
Shot Recorder
Shot Timer

As to what to practice, while stage planning is important that can only be gained from match experience. Breaking down a stage requires that you understand what you can do and apply that to what you see at the match. And you can only do that well when you have the basics down pat. One thing Robby told me early on was to practice at 100% speed but shoot the match at about 80%. In other words don't try to shoot a match at a level beyond what you can physically do. Let the other guys screw up. You just shoot at your can't miss speed. As your practice gets faster your match speed will get faster. Physical training is a must also. Unfortunately for me I didn't take up USPSA until I was already having knee issues. My shooting was good as I could often get into the 80% range in some stages like classifiers and ones that did not have much movement. But anything that did dropped me way down. Hopefully maybe next year as I have one knee fully replaced now so might go back to 3-gun also. All depends on how my personal training goes over the winter. Not supposed to try running until November.

Moorvogi · Oct 3, 2018

pilot25 said:
I probably want to work my way up to practicing those other things but just hitting the basics now. Magazine changes and drawing faster.

I use the blue timer I see at many matches. Not sure the manufacture. Helps a lot.

i've been using an app on my iPhone but the buzzer is so quiet you have to put it in your shirt pocket (or wear electronic headphones).

Magazine changes are amusingly slow for me! Granted, my 2nd magazine is deep in my pocket (only thing in pocket) but on a hot day some pants pockets JUST DONT WORK for quick extraction of magazine.

1time · Oct 12, 2018

pilot25 said:
True but that is difficult to practice at home.

It's not hard at all. The 2 largest gains in movement is exploding out of position and coming into the next position with the gun up and ready to shoot. It only takes a few feet to practice it. Incorporate it into dry fire.

daNattyFatty · Oct 13, 2018

pilot25 said:
Thanks. I'm pulling the trigger on each dry fire so I'll just raise to sight picture and take incremental steps instead of the whole motion at once. Great idea.

I did 400 rounds of just draw and fire at the range the other day. I'm glad to say 90% of my shots were good. My trigger discipline has gotten much better in that respect. But out of the 400 only a handful were under 2 seconds. Reading Ben Stoeger's book I need to shoot for .7 seconds. I just can't figure out how to get faster. Maybe this new approach will help.

This practicing has helped my draw and fire. I’m not sure how helpful it’ll be from a competition standpoint, but it appears to be quality instruction, nonetheless.

https://youtu.be/ckhJTXywKcQ

Edit: and the blue timer that you’re seeing is probably the Competition Electronics Pocket Pro. I have one and it works great for me.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

smokey · Oct 13, 2018

Here ya go

Draw and Fire timing?

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