Cast bullets in an AR-10/FAL?

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  • guzma393

    Active Member
    Jan 15, 2020
    736
    Severn, MD
    Has anyone loaded cast bullets in .308 winchester gas operated system? I have lurked around the cast boolits forums and came across BruceB's ventures into working up cast bullet loads in a M1A.

    I got a bunch of 312/160/2R lee powder coated bullets lying around casted with #2 alloy that I am currently using for 300 blkout and 7.62x39, gas checked, of course.

    This bullet looks really versatile, being able to size to .311 and .309. Using BruceB's data and a lyman CB manual, I plan on loading up some .309 GC's in .308 winchester using powders i got at hand (IMR4227,H335,IMR4831,IMR4350)

    Any thoughts, comments, advice, or concerns are welcomed. Thanks!
     

    DaemonAssassin

    Why should we Free BSD?
    Jun 14, 2012
    23,970
    Political refugee in WV
    Has anyone loaded cast bullets in .308 winchester gas operated system? I have lurked around the cast boolits forums and came across BruceB's ventures into working up cast bullet loads in a M1A.

    I got a bunch of 312/160/2R lee powder coated bullets lying around casted with #2 alloy that I am currently using for 300 blkout and 7.62x39, gas checked, of course.

    This bullet looks really versatile, being able to size to .311 and .309. Using BruceB's data and a lyman CB manual, I plan on loading up some .309 GC's in .308 winchester using powders i got at hand (IMR4227,H335,IMR4831,IMR4350)

    Any thoughts, comments, advice, or concerns are welcomed. Thanks!

    Cast bullets have a max velocity issue. Once you go beyond a specific velocity, it will frag after exiting the barrel, due to the centrifugal force ripping it apart.
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    Cast bullets have a max velocity issue. Once you go beyond a specific velocity, it will frag after exiting the barrel, due to the centrifugal force ripping it apart.
    Powder coated bullets are somewhat more resistant to this effect than plain-jane cast bullets.
     

    John from MD

    American Patriot
    MDS Supporter
    May 12, 2005
    22,733
    Socialist State of Maryland
    The key word is somewhat. The best I have been able to do with a .308 bullet is out of a Savage 110 Sporter, 1 in 10 twist, 20 inch barrel and that was 2300 FPS. I cast them fairly hard, powder coated and used IMR 4198 powder. Above 2300 accuracy started to open up and produce fliers. At the @ the 2300 FPS speed, I was able to get sub 1 inch groups from the bench. With the Sporter barrel, this only worked until the 3rd shot then they started to spread out again.
     

    303_enfield

    Ultimate Member
    May 30, 2007
    4,650
    DelMarVa
    For 300 BO I’m using a NOE 240gr plain base powder coated.

    As for FPS with lead. You can heat treat, add tin, gas check and powder coat. Some shooters are pushing 3,000 FPS with no problems. I’ve been shooting lead in 303Brit, 30-06,.308,7.62x54R, 30-30, M1 Grand an Carbine an 50 or so others. Lead works fine. Go over to castboolits.com an read around. Guys are using coated pills in 5.56 AR’s.
     

    guzma393

    Active Member
    Jan 15, 2020
    736
    Severn, MD
    For 300 BO I’m using a NOE 240gr plain base powder coated.

    As for FPS with lead. You can heat treat, add tin, gas check and powder coat. Some shooters are pushing 3,000 FPS with no problems. I’ve been shooting lead in 303Brit, 30-06,.308,7.62x54R, 30-30, M1 Grand an Carbine an 50 or so others. Lead works fine. Go over to castboolits.com an read around. Guys are using coated pills in 5.56 AR’s.

    This mold? https://noebulletmolds.com/site/shop/308-311/htc310-247-fn-bo3/htc310-247-fn-bo3-5-cavity-pb

    I was worried about the flat nose not feeding reliably, but this is just a hunch. I'd be more comfortable to try couple out before i invest in a 100 dollar mold though...

    ---

    What is your preferred load for .308 with cast bullets? Did you have success running them in gas operated systems?
     

    guzma393

    Active Member
    Jan 15, 2020
    736
    Severn, MD
    Reporting back, i tried two loads:

    24 gn imr4227, doesn't cycle the action all the way, even with the gas port all the way closed. Stopped with this powder as going higher may shoot out of the preferable speed range.

    30 gn H335, just barely cycles the action with gas port all the way closed (FAL has a pretty violent action, ejected cases 2 ft away rather than the usual 6ft with fmj loads) 1 out of the 5 loads tested was a FTE (stovepipe). Shots were smokey, but barrel inspection shows no sign of leading, checked gas piston system and it's the usual carbon fouling. 3 shot 3" groups at 25 yards, was able to hit a 6" steel target at 100yds with the last bits. Not too bad for blaster ammo/plinking ammo.

    I need to invest in a chrono for this.
     

    guzma393

    Active Member
    Jan 15, 2020
    736
    Severn, MD
    Reporting back, this time with 30.3 gn H335 loads and a chrono:

    Loaded 20 rounds. All cycled no problem and chronos ~2000 fps with a sized, polymer coated, and gas checked 309, Lee 312/160/2R. Accuracy is fair, 4-5" 3 shot group with irons at 100 yards, and pings a 6" target consistently. Barrel looks shiny with minimal powder residue. Not bad for blaster grade 308 coming out at 25 cpr.
     

    guzma393

    Active Member
    Jan 15, 2020
    736
    Severn, MD
    Shouldn't you have the gas all the way open if you want it to cycle?

    Yeah, im mainly speaking about the regulator blocking the off-gas port completely.

    As for the gas port itself, it is all the way open on normal "auto" configuration and can be configured completely closed too when switched to the "grenade" configuration.
     

    tallen702

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 3, 2012
    5,102
    In the boonies of MoCo
    Yeah, im mainly speaking about the regulator blocking the off-gas port completely.

    As for the gas port itself, it is all the way open on normal "auto" configuration and can be configured completely closed too when switched to the "grenade" configuration.

    Yep, something like what, 8 or 9 positions on the regulator? I've never had to push mine past zero as it cycles no problem in the minimal position with standard M80 Ball or .308

    BTW, definitely following this thread for any future efforts to dial in accuracy with coated cast rounds.
     

    Atlasarmory

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 2, 2009
    3,360
    Glen Burnie
    Assuming you could build up enough layers of powder coat to protect your barrel would a 100% mild steel bullet be legal to manufacture? I don't remember what constitutes an AP bullet i remember seeing some material percentages listed somewhere.
     

    guzma393

    Active Member
    Jan 15, 2020
    736
    Severn, MD
    Yep, something like what, 8 or 9 positions on the regulator? I've never had to push mine past zero as it cycles no problem in the minimal position with standard M80 Ball or .308

    BTW, definitely following this thread for any future efforts to dial in accuracy with coated cast rounds.

    I haven't ran anything stronger than steel cased 308 in it, which in itself, is underpowered. With steel cased, i got it set to 3, i start having feeding issues past 3.

    For these casts, the regulator has to be set to zero to assure that the cast loads even cycle. I think ~2000 fps is the limit I am comfortable on pushing these casts. The current alloy in question is lyman #2, 16 BHN, water quenched right after powder coating, yielding 18 BHN. I might try "heat treating" the alloy, but I'm not quite there in the casting world yet.

    30.3 gns of h335 pushes them to that limit, cycles the action, but doesn't quite lock the bolt back on the last round but I can live with that.

    I might try different powders once I get my hands on them.
     

    guzma393

    Active Member
    Jan 15, 2020
    736
    Severn, MD
    Assuming you could build up enough layers of powder coat to protect your barrel would a 100% mild steel bullet be legal to manufacture? I don't remember what constitutes an AP bullet i remember seeing some material percentages listed somewhere.

    Not sure you would even get the proper obturation with a 100 percent mild steel bullet to even engage the rifling...best alternative metals i have heard tested was with zinc, but it's a hassle to cast compared to lead.
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    Not sure you would even get the proper obturation with a 100 percent mild steel bullet to even engage the rifling...best alternative metals i have heard tested was with zinc, but it's a hassle to cast compared to lead.

    I think he was thinking and undersized bullet, with thick coating of powder coat to engage the rifling.
     

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