sb281 Question

capinyoass said:

>Referendum would have been a waste of money and time for us.<

This is where I disagree, IMO standing up for what is right and defending the Constitution, is NEVER a waste of time or money. Admitting defeat before you even try is the waste. Everything/Anything to defend 2A is a worth while endeavor, no matter how long the odds. I wonder what, if George Washington would have told the citizens, why bother, were just going to loose any way.

IMO, who ever sold the idea that a referendum was a "waste" was not on the pro 2A side. It has me questioning who started that rumor and the motivation behind it.

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Just so I know, Are you on the Exec Board of the SAF, MSI, NRA or CCRKBA? Have you written sizable checks to each of those organizations? Donated time and money to aid in the cause? Gone to Annapolis, not only during the hearings but other times to talk to and with members on both sides of the issue?

capinyoass said:

>Referendum would have been a waste of money and time for us.<

This is where I disagree, IMO standing up for what is right and defending the Constitution, is NEVER a waste of time or money. Admitting defeat before you even try is the waste. Everything/Anything to defend 2A is a worth while endeavor, no matter how long the odds. I wonder what, if George Washington would have told the citizens, why bother, were just going to loose any way.

IMO, who ever sold the idea that a referendum was a "waste" was not on the pro 2A side. It has me questioning who started that rumor and the motivation behind it.

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It's obvious that you are passionate about this, but we just don't have the votes. If we did, we wouldn't be in this mess to begin with.

capinyoass said:

>The best I would have expected out of SCOTUS if this went through referendum before hitting them would be to say that you can't do referendums on constitutional issues and the whole thing needs to start again.<

My point, in it's entirety.

Frank, thanks for the discussion/debate, it's good stuff...

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I am not sure this would be a good thing for our side. In our case the state would then just implement more restrictive laws and SCOTUS would not hear anything new for decades as they "ruled" on something involving it. My point is referendum would have set the cause back decades without any real chance of doing anything good.

We would not win it. I understand the sentiment to use all available weapons but it is not a tool that would have reaped anything good for us.

>Just so I know, Are you on the Exec Board of the SAF, MSI, NRA or CCRKBA? Have you written sizable checks to each of those organizations? Donated time and money to aid in the cause? Gone to Annapolis, not only during the hearings but other times to talk to and with members on both sides of the issue?<

Is that the qualification requirement now for exercising 1A and 2A rights? What's the minimum payment to have an opinion?

capinyoass said:

>Just so I know, Are you on the Exec Board of the SAF, MSI, NRA or CCRKBA? Have you written sizable checks to each of those organizations? Donated time and money to aid in the cause? Gone to Annapolis, not only during the hearings but other times to talk to and with members on both sides of the issue?<

Is that the qualification requirement now for exercising 1A and 2A rights? What's the minimum payment to have an opinion?

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Nope, honestly you are pissing on the wrong folks. God only knows that if you'd bother to go back a couple months and read the threads on these subjects you'd realize that the 2A leadership decided to fight this in court and that we the 2a community absolutely did not want anything to do with a referendum.

Crap, just look at what the last round of referendums legalized in this state.

Sincerely, go back a read a bit. By your comments I think you joined this party too late to understand why we are where we are. There are a lot of very smart folks working to restore our rights, please support the decisions that were made.

Besides, I think we are beyond the timeline for a referendum so there's no point arguing over it.

No Johnny come lately here, been following the legislation since it was drafted.

>A leadership decided to fight this in court and that we the 2a community absolutely did not want anything to do with a referendum.<

That's the part I can't understand, IMO there was nothing to lose in referendum. IF we lose the referendum THEN take it to court and challenge it.

Somehow the rumor "If you lose the referendum you CAN'T challenge it in court" got started, and that is simply not true. I did not agree with the "no referendum" strategy and question its origin.

Nothing personal, I just wanted to get that off my chest, and chose this thread.

capinyoass said:

>Just so I know, Are you on the Exec Board of the SAF, MSI, NRA or CCRKBA? Have you written sizable checks to each of those organizations? Donated time and money to aid in the cause? Gone to Annapolis, not only during the hearings but other times to talk to and with members on both sides of the issue?<

Is that the qualification requirement now for exercising 1A and 2A rights? What's the minimum payment to have an opinion?

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Not what I was saying at all. Just trying to qualify if you are protesting the attack on the Second Amendment by posting on a board of pro gun people or if you were actively fighting the fight. Some of us who have been actively fighting this in the halls of Annapolis know that a ref vote would be catastrophic to our cause. Look at the referendums that passed this last election. If you are an arm chair quarterback then you are not helping. If you are part of the group rolling up your sleeves, taking time off of work, writing, calling and visiting your legislators then great.

There are to many that talk a good game but never step up.

capinyoass said:

No Johnny come lately here, been following the legislation since it was drafted.

>A leadership decided to fight this in court and that we the 2a community absolutely did not want anything to do with a referendum.<

That's the part I can't understand, IMO there was nothing to lose in referendum. IF we lose the referendum THEN take it to court and challenge it.

Somehow the rumor "If you lose the referendum you CAN'T challenge it in court" got started, and that is simply not true. I did not agree with the "no referendum" strategy and question its origin.

Nothing personal, I just wanted to get that off my chest, and chose this thread.

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So, let's say the referendum got enough signatures to go on the ballot. what next?

How do you educate the masses that have no clue? It's a serious question, do you happen to have a workable answer?

November 2014 comes and the state gets to write the question, how does that get dealt with and overcome?

Finally, as Nov 2014 nears, Bloomberg pushes untold amounts of money for TV and print advertising against the referendum, where does that money come from for the 2A side to do the same?

Let's say, that MSI, SAF, NRA, and others try to match Bloomberg and company in advertising. The referendum does not go our way and most of the funds have been spent on the referendum. Where does the new funding and donations come from for a lawsuit? From the now dejected 2A crowd?

The above were the questions that were asked going into it. No one could come up with sufficient answers to sway the powers that be or even the 2nd string powers that be, to step up and do the referendum.