LEOSA questions

Irish Alley · Mar 6, 2020

ok let me start with this part i currently work for Delaware DOC. I called MSP and talked to them about if i need a HQL and since i yearly qualify with a 40 cal would i only be covered if i carry a pistol of the same caliber.

to my surprise the women who i was talking to told me i wasn't covered under the LEOSA and i had to inform her i was as we just had to take a training class on it. the issue with the class is i'm dealing with Maryland as thats where i live and most of my co-workers live in Delaware. she put me on hold and came back a few minutes later and told me she was wrong and i was right. well that kind of made me think she might not know what she was talking about for the rest of the conversation and many of you on here will know better than her.

i want to know what would be my steps into getting a HQL given i qualify every year with the DOC or if i even need it as i think i understand its only used to buy/rent or receive a handgun. i did look at the application for a HQL and i do believe i qualify as i work as a corrections officer and have been assaulted in prison (but do i really need to as im covered by the LEOSA). im not going to CC daily but if i ever do i just want to make sure im legal and covered. And if i do is my Polymer80 ok to carry?

StantonCree · Mar 6, 2020

Same as everyone else

DC cop here......still had to get HQL

rbird7282 · Mar 6, 2020

HQL is only for purchasing a handgun in MD, has nothing to do with a CCW permit. AFAIK, if you are a law enforcement officer in MD you don’t need an HQL (or at the very least you’re exempt from the training portion) to buy an handgun in MD. The 7 day wait applies to everyone though.

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Irish Alley · Mar 6, 2020

is the HQL required to carry?
nm see the new post now

i dont plan on buying a gun if i can carry the 80%

StantonCree · Mar 6, 2020

Irish Alley said:
is the HQL required to carry?
nm see the new post now

i dont plan on buying a gun if i can carry the 80%

No a HQL is not required to carry. HR218 supersedes it. You can carry your 80% if your qualify.

The only exemptions on what you can carry is (no DD, machine gun, suppressor)

ADR · Mar 6, 2020

StantonCree said:
Same as everyone else

DC cop here......still had to get HQL

I have an HQL but they've approved applications checked as exempt for LE and with my agency listed. (Maybe a federal thing?)

StantonCree · Mar 6, 2020

ADR said:
I have an HQL but they've approved applications checked as exempt for LE and with my agency listed. (Maybe a federal thing?)

Yes it is.

The bill read MD cop or FED LEO are exempt. So those federal protective service dorks are exempt but i am not lol.

No biggie, it wasn’t hard i just wish i coulda saved the $100

ADR · Mar 6, 2020

StantonCree said:
Yes it is.

The bill read MD cop or FED LEO are exempt. So those federal protective service dorks are exempt but i am not lol.

No biggie, it wasn’t hard i just wish i coulda saved the $100

That's retarded for sure especially since there are quite a few MD residents who are LE in DC and NoVA. I've never had any dealings with FPS other than seeing some of their basic students milling around campus at Glynco when I was down for an instructor course.

rbird7282 · Mar 6, 2020

Irish Alley said:
is the HQL required to carry?
nm see the new post now

i dont plan on buying a gun if i can carry the 80%

HQL has absolutely nothing to do with carrying a firearm.

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cstone · Mar 6, 2020

I just did the retired portion of this in Sykesville. MSP doesn't handle LEOSA anymore. Take a look at this page and call the number for PCTC. If Steve is there he will either know the answer or point you in the right direction.

https://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/leosa/maryland

Be safe.

dblas · Mar 6, 2020

rbird7282 said:
HQL is only for purchasing a handgun in MD, has nothing to do with a CCW permit. AFAIK, if you are a law enforcement officer in MD you don’t need an HQL (or at the very least you’re exempt from the training portion) to buy an handgun in MD. The 7 day wait applies to everyone though.

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Under Maryland law, the LEO exemption only applies to those state and local LEOs that work in Maryland. Further, Maryland law DOES NOT designate DOC as LEO, and thus even DOC employees in Maryland are not exempt from the HQL.

Doobie · Mar 6, 2020

dblas said:
Under Maryland law, the LEO exemption only applies to those state and local LEOs that work in Maryland. Further, Maryland law DOES NOT designate DOC as LEO, and thus even DOC employees in Maryland are not exempt from the HQL.

This is directly from the MSP website:

Exemptions

An applicant is not required to possess a Handgun Qualification License if they are:

-A Licensed Firearms Manufacturer.

-Active law enforcement officer or a person retired in good standing from a law enforcement agency of the United States, the State, or a local law enforcement agency of the State.

-A member or retired member of the armed forces of the United States or National Guard.

-A person purchasing, renting or receiving an antique, curio or relic as defined in federal law or in determinations published by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

When I worked for MD DOC those of us on weapons cadre qualified every year per COMAR, yet that wouldn’t satisfy the training requirement even though it was either the same or very similar to MSP’s. And we were not considered LEO.
I went to the Feds where we are classified as LEOs and are exempt from the HQL.

Where in the law does it say that one must work in the state of Maryland to be exempt?

dblas · Mar 6, 2020

Doobie said:
This is directly from the MSP website:

Exemptions

An applicant is not required to possess a Handgun Qualification License if they are:

-A Licensed Firearms Manufacturer.

-Active law enforcement officer or a person retired in good standing from a law enforcement agency of the United States, the State, or a local law enforcement agency of the State.

Right there....

I'll break it down for you...

Active law enforcement officer or a person retired in good standing from - Active or retired officers;

a law enforcement agency of the United States - Federal LEOs

the State - Maryland State LEOs (MSP, DNR, etc.)

a local law enforcement agency of the State - Local, County LEOs in Maryland.

Doobie said:
-A member or retired member of the armed forces of the United States or National Guard.

-A person purchasing, renting or receiving an antique, curio or relic as defined in federal law or in determinations published by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

When I worked for MD DOC those of us on weapons cadre qualified every year per COMAR, yet that wouldn’t satisfy the training requirement even though it was either the same or very similar to MSP’s. And we were not considered LEO.
I went to the Feds where we are classified as LEOs and are exempt from the HQL.

Where in the law does it say that one must work in the state of Maryland to be exempt?

You didn't qualify as a MD DOC employee, not because of the training but because you aren't a LEO in Maryland under 3-101(e) of the Public Safety Article;

(e) Law enforcement officer. --
(1) "Law enforcement officer" means an individual who:
(i) in an official capacity is authorized by law to make arrests; and
(ii) is a member of one of the following law enforcement agencies:
1. the Department of State Police;
2. the Police Department of Baltimore City;
3. the Baltimore City School Police Force;
4. the Baltimore City Watershed Police Force;
5. the police department, bureau, or force of a county;
6. the police department, bureau, or force of a municipal corporation;
7. the office of the sheriff of a county;
8. the police department, bureau, or force of a bicounty agency;
9. the Maryland Transportation Authority Police;
10. the police forces of the Department of Transportation;
11. the police forces of the Department of Natural Resources;
12. the Field Enforcement Bureau of the Comptroller's Office;
13. the Housing Authority of Baltimore City Police Force;
14. the Crofton Police Department;
15. the police force of the Maryland Department of Health;
16. the police force of the Maryland Capitol Police of the Department of General Services;
17. the police forces of the University System of Maryland;
18. the police force of Morgan State University;
19. the office of State Fire Marshal;
20. the Ocean Pines Police Department;
21. the police force of the Baltimore City Community College;
22. the police force of the Hagerstown Community College;
23. the Internal Investigation Unit of the Department of Public Safety and Correctional Services;
24. the Warrant Apprehension Unit of the Division of Parole and Probation in the Department of Public Safety and Correctional Services;
25. the police force of the Anne Arundel Community College; or
26. the police department of the Johns Hopkins University established in accordance with Title 24, Subtitle 12 of the Education Article.

Doobie · Mar 6, 2020

dblas said:
Right there....

I'll break it down for you...

Active law enforcement officer or a person retired in good standing from - Active or retired officers;

a law enforcement agency of the United States - Federal LEOs

the State - Maryland State LEOs (MSP, DNR, etc.)

a local law enforcement agency of the State - Local, County LEOs in Maryland.

You didn't qualify as a MD DOC employee, not because of the training but because you aren't a LEO in Maryland under 3-101(e) of the Public Safety Article;

(e) Law enforcement officer. --
(1) "Law enforcement officer" means an individual who:
(i) in an official capacity is authorized by law to make arrests; and
(ii) is a member of one of the following law enforcement agencies:
1. the Department of State Police;
2. the Police Department of Baltimore City;
3. the Baltimore City School Police Force;
4. the Baltimore City Watershed Police Force;
5. the police department, bureau, or force of a county;
6. the police department, bureau, or force of a municipal corporation;
7. the office of the sheriff of a county;
8. the police department, bureau, or force of a bicounty agency;
9. the Maryland Transportation Authority Police;
10. the police forces of the Department of Transportation;
11. the police forces of the Department of Natural Resources;
12. the Field Enforcement Bureau of the Comptroller's Office;
13. the Housing Authority of Baltimore City Police Force;
14. the Crofton Police Department;
15. the police force of the Maryland Department of Health;
16. the police force of the Maryland Capitol Police of the Department of General Services;
17. the police forces of the University System of Maryland;
18. the police force of Morgan State University;
19. the office of State Fire Marshal;
20. the Ocean Pines Police Department;
21. the police force of the Baltimore City Community College;
22. the police force of the Hagerstown Community College;
23. the Internal Investigation Unit of the Department of Public Safety and Correctional Services;
24. the Warrant Apprehension Unit of the Division of Parole and Probation in the Department of Public Safety and Correctional Services;
25. the police force of the Anne Arundel Community College; or
26. the police department of the Johns Hopkins University established in accordance with Title 24, Subtitle 12 of the Education Article.

Thanks for the reply dblas. I wasn’t clear on my reply...I knew that I didn’t qualify for the HQL exemption when I worked for MD because we weren’t considered LEOs, but MSP would never clarify WHY the firearms training and yearly qualification at the DOC per COMAR wouldn’t satisfy the training requirement of the HQL.

dblas · Mar 6, 2020

Doobie said:
Thanks for the reply dblas. I wasn’t clear on my reply...I knew that I didn’t qualify for the HQL exemption when I worked for MD because we weren’t considered LEOs, but MSP would never clarify WHY the firearms training and yearly qualification at the DOC per COMAR wouldn’t satisfy the training requirement of the HQL.

My guess would be the lack of any classroom training on Maryland firearms laws, since firearms training for every other LE agency is also not accepted.

Irish Alley · Mar 7, 2020

thanks for the info. really does help out.

ok, next question. since i qualify with a .40 sig and my weapons card specifies ".40 cal", my understanding is that Im only covered under the LEOSA if i carry a pistol of the same caliber. my 80% is a g19 and its a 9mm, i've read that you convert a g22 to the g19 by swapping a few parts but not the other way around. is there a way to make the g19 .40 cal?
https://www.glockmeister.com/GlockUpperSwapsbyModel.asp

ADR · Mar 7, 2020

Irish Alley said:
thanks for the info. really does help out.

ok, next question. since i qualify with a .40 sig and my weapons card specifies ".40 cal", my understanding is that Im only covered under the LEOSA if i carry a pistol of the same caliber. my 80% is a g19 and its a 9mm, i've read that you convert a g22 to the g19 by swapping a few parts but not the other way around. is there a way to make the g19 .40 cal?
https://www.glockmeister.com/GlockUpperSwapsbyModel.asp

Your understanding is incorrect, you're not restricted to what you qualify with.

StantonCree · Mar 7, 2020

Irish Alley said:
thanks for the info. really does help out.

ok, next question. since i qualify with a .40 sig and my weapons card specifies ".40 cal", my understanding is that Im only covered under the LEOSA if i carry a pistol of the same caliber. my 80% is a g19 and its a 9mm, i've read that you convert a g22 to the g19 by swapping a few parts but not the other way around. is there a way to make the g19 .40 cal?
https://www.glockmeister.com/GlockUpperSwapsbyModel.asp

See the post above mine and read the HR218 text but i believe the text says you can carry a weapon that you’re familiar with. You would also need to abide by department policy, per your policy but the 2nd part is just to cover your butt with your job not legally

spoon059 · Mar 7, 2020

rbird7282 said:
The 7 day wait applies to everyone though.

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Not necessarily. You can get a exemption letter from the 7 day waiting period if the weapon is to be used for law enforcement purposes. In my case, it was my off-duty Glock 19 I bought 8 years ago. I still had to wait a couple months for the gun to come in stock, but as soon as the Cop Shop had it in, I was able to walk in with my signed exemption letter and walk out same day with my pistol.

cstone · Mar 7, 2020

If you qualify with any semi-auto pistol, you are cleared to carry semi-auto pistols. If you qualify with any revolver, you are cleared to carry revolvers.

At least that is what is printed on the card they issue after you qualify. The qualification is good for a year, so I guess next year I could switch to a revolver if that is what I want to carry next year.

Again, I only know the retired portion of LEOSA in MD as that is all I have dealt with.

Be safe.

LEOSA questions

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