In just over a month 118 Red Flag PO’s

ironpony · Dec 7, 2018

inkd said:
Nope, she didn't. It was the responding LEO's that informed her of it.

Sounds like having a back problem and doc says let’s operate when some yoga will actually do the job.

The particulars in these flag raisings would help showing flaws. Once again a knee jerk law. Funny that no law suits may be brought up is actually written into this. I’ve always said the damn crooks are smarter than the honest people .... they got their law through! And no way to show the country what is happening. Body cams optional.

Also funny how there are no longer posts belittling people who say moving out of this state is the best option.

Hold on, someone is at my door ...

inkd · Dec 7, 2018

babalou said:
Well, damn. Thank you. Was not aware. So the LEOs said " you know, does he own guns? Well, you know.... you can do this new thing.....We would be more than happy to remove his guns so he won't hurt anyone or himself. The Public Safety, you know?"

Not sure what they said, I just remember reading in one of the articles that the responding officers informed the sister of the existence of the ERPO.

I imagine she was probably irate that the police "didn't do anything" and probably threw out the ERPO info as a way of appeasing her.

daNattyFatty · Dec 7, 2018

inkd said:
Nope, she didn't. It was the responding LEO's that informed her of it.

Is that reported somewhere? Are we sure that the police didn’t direct the sister to apply for a peace or protective order and the commissioner is the person that asked about guns or advised of an ERPO?

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Mark75H · Dec 7, 2018

inkd said:
Not sure what they said, I just remember reading in one of the articles that the responding officers informed the sister of the existence of the ERPO.

I imagine she was probably irate that the police "didn't do anything" and probably threw out the ERPO info as a way of appeasing her.

I think it was probably that she wanted them to take the guns the first time but they told her "We can't take his guns unless you go down and file ... "

inkd · Dec 7, 2018

daNattyFatty said:
Is that reported somewhere? Are we sure that the police didn’t direct the sister to apply for a peace or protective order and the commissioner is the person that asked about guns or advised of an ERPO?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I know I read it one of the articles about the incident. Of course, now, I cannot find it.

I would go back and delete the comment but now that it's been "quoted" in replies, it will still show up, right?

willtill · Dec 7, 2018

At any rate to that first encounter with the LEO's, she followed on and her decided actions led to the later inadvertent/AND totally unnecessary death of her brother.

I have often wondered how she feels now and to this very day; as to how things turned out.

How does the rest of the family feel?

.

RoadDawg · Dec 7, 2018

willtill said:
At any rate to that first encounter with the LEO's, she followed on and her decided actions led to the later inadvertent/AND totally unnecessary death of her brother.

I have often wondered how she feels now and to this very day; as to how things turned out.

How does the rest of the family feel?

.

I wonder the same thing...

She had to agree to use the application. So... she lives with that... and will always wonder if it was truly necessary.

There are some people who call the Police for EVERY damn disagreement they have with family members. They are constantly a bother with their BS complaints which amount to no more than their adult version of "Mommy he's LOOKING at me!"

Was this truly 1302 necessary? Or was it simply a SWAT move from a pissed off sister? We shall never know. He is no longer around to find out anything about. But... SHE will carry that with her for the rest of her life. She DOES know.

Jim12 · Dec 7, 2018

RoadDawg said:
I wonder the same thing...

She had to agree to use the application. So... she lives with that... and will always wonder if it was truly necessary.

There are some people who call the Police for EVERY damn disagreement they have with family members. They are constantly a bother with their BS complaints which amount to no more than their adult version of "Mommy he's LOOKING at me!"

Was this truly 1302 necessary? Or was it simply a SWAT move from a pissed off sister? We shall never know. He is no longer around to find out anything about. But... SHE will carry that with her for the rest of her life. She DOES know.

Another relative of his, a niece iirc, was interviewed immediately after it happened. She said he wouldn't hurt a fly. Leads me to conclude that the sister over-reacted in the heat of passion, exerting all the unbridled power and control that this ill-advised law gives to pissed off people. Look at the result.

j_h_smith · Dec 7, 2018

Went back and was reading some of the articles about the shooting. I found this and have a few questions.

https://www.wbaltv.com/article/police-investigate-officer-involved-shooting-in-ferndale/24658392

--------------
"Once they explained to him he was the respondent of an order and that they would be taking his guns, he became irate, went back in the house, grabbed the gun. The first officer in the door grabbed the gun, as well. They started a tug of war for the gun and the suspect fired one shot from the gun. Luckily, that didn't hit anybody, but once that shot went off, the second officer fired his service weapon, striking the suspect," Anne Arundel County police Sgt. Jacklyn Davis said.
--------------

When presented with the Order, the man became irate, opened the door to the house and went back into his house. There he grabbed his firearm (inside his own home). THEN, the officer went into the house (without a warrant) and grabbed the handgun, trying to wrestle away the firearm. A shot rang out and the other police officer shoots and kills the man.

When did the ERPO allow an officer to enter into a house without the owner's permission? Wouldn't that involve having a warrant? Secondly, what law would prevent the owner from picking up his firearm ONCE inside his house? This is the first time I can remember a story where the police were reported to be INSIDE of the house when the struggle occurred and the shot taken that killed the man. If this is true, then the story takes on a rather dark, under reported set of circumstances.

Am I wrong about worrying that this took place INSIDE of the man's house?

j_h_smith · Dec 7, 2018

Jim12 said:
Another relative of his, a niece iirc, was interviewed immediately after it happened. She said he wouldn't hurt a fly. Leads me to conclude that the sister over-reacted in the heat of passion, exerting all the unbridled power and control that this ill-advised law gives to pissed off people. Look at the result.

I still don't know that the ERPO was filed by the sister. A police officer can act on his own from information received by the sister. The officer can then apply for the ERPO without anything more than a report from the sister that he owns a firearm and the actions of the man when he interacted with the police earlier in the day.

The sister may have started this circus, but we haven't actually heard that she swore out the ERPO on her brother. At least I don't believe so.

I think this is the "end around" portion to the law. If the police can file the ERPO, then what's to stop them from doing it every time they get a call about a civil disturbance?

As been reported in national news, a magistrate/judge will almost always sign off on these orders because they don't want to be involved in the story if that person did in fact cause a problem. So, it's almost automatic that these orders will be granted.

Scary thought...

daNattyFatty · Dec 7, 2018

j_h_smith said:
Went back and was reading some of the articles about the shooting. I found this and have a few questions.

https://www.wbaltv.com/article/police-investigate-officer-involved-shooting-in-ferndale/24658392

--------------

"Once they explained to him he was the respondent of an order and that they would be taking his guns, he became irate, went back in the house, grabbed the gun. The first officer in the door grabbed the gun, as well. They started a tug of war for the gun and the suspect fired one shot from the gun. Luckily, that didn't hit anybody, but once that shot went off, the second officer fired his service weapon, striking the suspect," Anne Arundel County police Sgt. Jacklyn Davis said.

--------------

When presented with the Order, the man became irate, opened the door to the house and went back into his house. There he grabbed his firearm (inside his own home). THEN, the officer went into the house (without a warrant) and grabbed the handgun, trying to wrestle away the firearm. A shot rang out and the other police officer shoots and kills the man.

When did the ERPO allow an officer to enter into a house without the owner's permission? Wouldn't that involve having a warrant? Secondly, what law would prevent the owner from picking up his firearm ONCE inside his house? This is the first time I can remember a story where the police were reported to be INSIDE of the house when the struggle occurred and the shot taken that killed the man. If this is true, then the story takes on a rather dark, under reported set of circumstances.

Am I wrong about worrying that this took place INSIDE of the man's house?

The officers were well within their rights to intervene after he became irate and grab his gun.

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Jim12 · Dec 7, 2018

j_h_smith said:
I still don't know that the ERPO was filed by the sister. A police officer can act on his own from information received by the sister. The officer can then apply for the ERPO without anything more than a report from the sister that he owns a firearm and the actions of the man when he interacted with the police earlier in the day.

The sister may have started this circus, but we haven't actually heard that she swore out the ERPO on her brother. At least I don't believe so.

I think this is the "end around" portion to the law. If the police can file the ERPO, then what's to stop them from doing it every time they get a call about a civil disturbance?

As been reported in national news, a magistrate/judge will almost always sign off on these orders because they don't want to be involved in the story if that person did in fact cause a problem. So, it's almost automatic that these orders will be granted.

Scary thought...

Thanks for the clarification. I'm surprised the facts haven't been nailed down. Was there a hearing on the ex parte request? District Court proceedings are recorded.

ironpony · Dec 7, 2018

Define irate

basscat · Dec 7, 2018

I'm sure the "facts" will never be released. This crap is going to snowball so fast.

daNattyFatty · Dec 7, 2018

basscat said:
I'm sure the "facts" will never be released. This crap is going to snowball so fast.

If people want some measure of clarity, then a PIA request should be made for the police reports for this incident.

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eruby · Dec 7, 2018

Facts, are the enemy of truth. - Don Quixote

j_h_smith · Dec 7, 2018

daNattyFatty said:
If people want some measure of clarity, then a PIA request should be made for the police reports for this incident.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

And you would only be getting one side of the story. A police report for this incident isn't going to do anything but tell the officer's side of the story.

j_h_smith · Dec 7, 2018

eruby said:
Facts, are the enemy of truth. - Don Quixote

Agreed upon facts yes. A police report with only one side of the REAL story, not so much.

daNattyFatty · Dec 7, 2018

j_h_smith said:
And you would only be getting one side of the story. A police report for this incident isn't going to do anything but tell the officer's side of the story.

I’m well aware of that. Right now all we have are news reportings and that’s all that we’ll have unless someone requests more information.

At this point, this thread is just going around in circles.

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j_h_smith · Dec 7, 2018

I'll leave this here, some may think it's appropriate.

[YT]oA-fc3D09ZY[/YT]

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