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  • daNattyFatty

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 27, 2009
    3,908
    Bel Air, MD
    Important numbers may also be

    How many guns seized.
    How much ammo seized.
    How many returned.
    Duration of confiscation.


    Are any of these numbers attainable? FOIA request?



    I doubt those numbers are centrally compiled, unless the Governor’s Office of Crime Control and Prevention mandated it. Probably have to do separate PIA requests for each county and Baltimore City.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     

    Jim12

    Let Freedom Ring
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 30, 2013
    33,876
    Here is the breakdown, as of 11/13, per that map:
    1. Harford County: 28
    2. Anne Arundel County: 26
    3. Baltimore County: 22
    4. Prince George's County: 16
    5. Montgomery County: 12
    6. Frederick County: 10
    7. Charles County: 9
    8. St Mary's County: 7
    9. Baltimore City: 6
    10. Garrett County: 6
    11. Allegany County: 5
    12. Carroll County: 5
    13. Howard County: 5
    14. Wicomico County: 5
    15. Cecil County: 3
    16. Worcester County: 3
    17. Washington County: 2
    18. Calvert County: 1
    19. Dorchester County: 1
    20. Somerset County: 1
    21. Caroline County: 0
    22. Kent County: 0
    23. Queen Anne's County: 0
    24. Talbot County: 0

    Aha! Now we know where all the unhinged gun owners are. :sarcasm:

    And aren't! The Eastern Shore must be where responsible, mentally fit, adjusted Maryland gun owners live. And I'd bet dollars to donuts that their firearms ownership percentage is among the highest in the state.

    Maybe the problem is urban environments and influences, not guns.
     

    BeoBill

    Crank in the Third Row
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 3, 2013
    27,064
    南馬里蘭州鮑伊
    Aha! Now we know where all the unhinged gun owners are. :sarcasm:

    And aren't! The Eastern Shore must be where responsible, mentally fit, adjusted Maryland gun owners live. And I'd bet dollars to donuts that their firearms ownership percentage is among the highest in the state.

    Maybe the problem is urban environments and influences, not guns.

    Combine those stats with Peace Orders/Restraining Orders and you'd have a pretty good basis for finding trends.
     

    j_h_smith

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 28, 2007
    28,516
    Here is the breakdown, as of 11/13, per that map:
    1. Harford County: 28
    2. Anne Arundel County: 26
    3. Baltimore County: 22
    4. Prince George's County: 16
    5. Montgomery County: 12
    6. Frederick County: 10
    7. Charles County: 9
    8. St Mary's County: 7
    9. Baltimore City: 6
    10. Garrett County: 6
    11. Allegany County: 5
    12. Carroll County: 5
    13. Howard County: 5
    14. Wicomico County: 5
    15. Cecil County: 3
    16. Worcester County: 3
    17. Washington County: 2
    18. Calvert County: 1
    19. Dorchester County: 1
    20. Somerset County: 1
    21. Caroline County: 0
    22. Kent County: 0
    23. Queen Anne's County: 0
    24. Talbot County: 0

    I've got a request out to someone in the government to see if they can get any useful info on these numbers in Harford County. I know we have a few deputies on the forum, but I didn't want to impose. Hopefully my contact will come through.
     

    Jim12

    Let Freedom Ring
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 30, 2013
    33,876
    Given the overwhelmingly outsized number of shootings in Baltimorgue and P.G. compared to the rest of the state, shouldn't nearly ALL of them be there?

    Does MoCo LE seriously expect anyone to believe that this law has prevented 12 shootings in MoCo since October? I call BS on that. Let's hear MoCo name the people who were saved from an "extreme risk."
     

    orck53

    Member
    Oct 28, 2018
    40
    Finksburg
    Hello all.Long time lurker and new member here.I have a few questions to ask.
    1)Do EPRO's cross state lines?
    1A)Can a person from another state acquire a EPRO from this state?
    2)Moving guns in mass from this state to a safe state without being confiscated on the road?
     

    orck53

    Member
    Oct 28, 2018
    40
    Finksburg
    Hello all.Long time lurker and new member here.I have a few questions to ask.
    1)Do EPRO's cross state lines?
    1A)Can a person from another state acquire a EPRO from this state?
    2)Moving guns in mass from this state to a safe state without being confiscated on the road?
     

    Hawkeye

    The Leatherstocking
    Jan 29, 2009
    3,971
    1)Do EPRO's cross state lines?

    How do you mean? Maryland laws have no force outside of Maryland.

    1A)Can a person from another state acquire a EPRO from this state?

    There's nothing in the statute that would prevent that, if they were one of the classes of people who is allowed to file for an Order in the first place.

    2)Moving guns in mass from this state to a safe state without being confiscated on the road?

    What do you mean here? If you mean you want to move guns to another state now, go for it. If you're asking if you could move your guns to another state AFTER being served with an Order, no you can't, at least not legally. It would be illegal for you to maintain possession of any firearms in Maryland after being served with an Order.

    If you're asking if you can move them now, yes you can. Just remember that if you are served with an Order in Maryland, it would be illegal for you to possess any firearms after that point as long as you're a Maryland resident in Maryland.
     

    rbird7282

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 6, 2012
    18,538
    Columbia
    Hello all.Long time lurker and new member here.I have a few questions to ask.
    1)Do EPRO's cross state lines?
    1A)Can a person from another state acquire a EPRO from this state?
    2)Moving guns in mass from this state to a safe state without being confiscated on the road?



    Interesting first post.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    j_h_smith

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 28, 2007
    28,516
    Interesting first post.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    I think you may find a lot of first posts concerning this law. This law has a LOT of people nervous. I'm guessing many people didn't understand the impact of this law until the killing of the legal gun owner in AACo.

    Imagine the uninformed waking up one morning and realizing that because of a disagreement with a loved one or a co-worker, you could be put into a situation like the guy in AACo.

    Even the FUDDS gotta be shaking in their boots. Public safety is just a ruse and this must be fought. Perception is most people's reality. Listening to MSM, this is the law that is going to save millions of lives. In reality, it's just a form a confiscation.
     

    geda

    Active Member
    Dec 24, 2017
    550
    cowcounty
    2)Moving guns in mass from this state to a safe state without being confiscated on the road?

    It sounds like the AA county man was visited by police a few hours before the they came back with the PO paperwork. Being that pretty much all of maryland is less than 1 hour from sane state, I am curious how illegal it would be to start driving the second you get a hint that anything might be up, likely hours before the paper work goes through. Or moving all guns the week before starting a messy custody dispute or divorce. I would think they would try to arrest you on return to prevent you from attempting to retake possession of the guns they can not confiscate.

    Do these protective orders have the same power as a warrant or no-knock warrant? Can they knock down your door at 2am if you do not answer? The 5am visit to the AA man was clearly an attempt to disorient him by catching him off guard in his PJs. What stops a full SWAT turn out with flashbangs?

    Have any lawyers commented on how a to prepare yourself and react when served? I would definitely kick some extra money to MSI earmarked for such advice.
     

    IDFInfantry

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Feb 21, 2013
    926
    Nomad
    Indeed this law has a lot of people nervous and it should have them nervous! Looking at the requirements for filing one of these it should have everyone extremely concerned. I think people are now starting to realize the dangers of how the State and Individuals will abuse this law. It's also putting people's lives at risk both the officers that have to serve these orders and otherwise law abiding gun owners that don't want to surrender their rights and shouldn't! It's literally pitting us up against Law Enforcement. No Bueno!
     

    IDFInfantry

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Feb 21, 2013
    926
    Nomad
    Not to mention that it seems like there is pressure to serve an increasing amount of these ERPO's. In California those on the left are criticizing that these Red Flag Laws haven't been utilized enough. They wanted it expanded as to who could file these orders to include school employees.
     

    geda

    Active Member
    Dec 24, 2017
    550
    cowcounty
    New business idea, "UberFFL". With one click of a button we will show up with a discrete 2017 black suburban and an out of state FFL to whisk your firearms away to safety. Our vehicles are equipped with state of the art hard cases, gun socks, and moving blanks and we are fully insured in case of any damage. We offer affordable secure storage of all firearms and NFA items. In the case of extended legal trouble we also offer legal services for transferring to trusts or next of kin. We also offer gunbroker liquidation services in case a damn anti-gun spouse/children/cohabitant/gf/wife/guardian/cat-lady throws you under the bus.

    Our current special, barrow on your next Oil Weath Trust check, UberFFL will take you and your firearms to Alaska for no money down!
     

    IDFInfantry

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Feb 21, 2013
    926
    Nomad
    New business idea, "UberFFL". With one click of a button we will show up with a discrete 2017 black suburban and an out of state FFL to whisk your firearms away to safety. Our vehicles are equipped with state of the art hard cases, gun socks, and moving blanks and we are fully insured in case of any damage. We offer affordable secure storage of all firearms and NFA items. In the case of extended legal trouble we also offer legal services for transferring to trusts or next of kin. We also offer gunbroker liquidation services in case a damn anti-gun spouse/children/cohabitant/gf/wife/guardian/cat-lady throws you under the bus.

    Our current special, barrow on your next Oil Weath Trust check, UberFFL will take you and your firearms to Alaska for no money down!

    It's a great idea but it looks like several companies already have you beat.

    https://www.gunsitters.com/
     

    IDFInfantry

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Feb 21, 2013
    926
    Nomad
    The Oathkeepers were supposed to have an emergency network of members that would mobilize and prevent this very thing that we see happening.
    Here's a list of orders members of Oathkeepers will not obey! Their motto is "Not on our watch!" Well it's happening on their watch and not a damn thing is being done about it!

    DECLARATION OF ORDERS WE WILL NOT OBEY
    Recognizing that we each swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic, and affirming that we are guardians of the Republic, of the principles in our Declaration of Independence, and of the rights of our people, we affirm and declare the following:

    1. We will NOT obey any order to disarm the American people.

    The attempt to disarm the people on April 19, 1775 was the spark of open conflict in the American Revolution. That vile attempt was an act of war, and the American people fought back in justified, righteous self-defense of their natural rights. Any such order today would also be an act of war against the American people, and thus an act of treason. We will not make war on our own people, and we will not commit treason by obeying any such treasonous order.Nor will we assist, or support any such attempt to disarm the people by other government entities, either state or federal.

    In addition, we affirm that the purpose of the Second Amendment is to preserve the military power of the people so that they will, in the last resort, have effective final recourse to arms and to the God of Hosts in the face of tyranny. Accordingly, we oppose any and all further infringements on the right of the people to keep and bear arms. In particular we oppose a renewal of the misnamed “assault-weapons” ban or the enactment of H.R. 45 (which would register and track gun owners like convicted pedophiles).

    2. We will NOT obey any order to conduct warrantless searches of the American people, their homes, vehicles, papers, or effects – such as warrantless house-to house searches for weapons or persons.

    One of the causes of the American Revolution was the use of “writs of assistance,” which were essentially warrantless searches because there was no requirement of a showing of probable cause to a judge, and the first fiery embers of American resistance were born in opposition to those infamous writs. The Founders considered all warrantless searches to be unreasonable and egregious. It was to prevent a repeat of such violations of the right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects that the Fourth Amendment was written.

    We expect that sweeping warrantless searches of homes and vehicles, under some pretext, will be the means used to attempt to disarm the people.

    3. We will NOT obey any order to detain American citizens as “unlawful enemy combatants” or to subject them to trial by military tribunal.

    One of the causes of the American Revolution was the denial of the right to jury trial, the use of admiralty courts (military tribunals) instead, and the application of the laws of war to the colonists. After that experience, and being well aware of the infamous Star Chamber in English history, the Founders ensured that the international laws of war would apply only to foreign enemies, not to the American people. Thus, the Article III Treason Clause establishes the only constitutional form of trial for an American, not serving in the military, who is accused of making war on his own nation. Such a trial for treason must be before a civilian jury, not a tribunal.

    The international laws of war do not trump our Bill of Rights. We reject as illegitimate any such claimed power, as did the Supreme Court in Ex Parte Milligan (1865). Any attempt to apply the laws of war to American civilians, under any pretext, such as against domestic “militia” groups the government brands “domestic terrorists,” is an act of war and an act of treason.

    4. We will NOT obey orders to impose martial law or a “state of emergency” on a state, or to enter with force into a state, without the express consent and invitation of that state’s legislature and governor.

    One of the causes of the American Revolution was the attempt “to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power” by disbanding the Massachusetts legislature and appointing General Gage as “military governor.” The attempt to disarm the people of Massachusetts during that martial law sparked our Revolution. Accordingly, the power to impose martial law – the absolute rule over the people by a military officer with his will alone being law – is nowhere enumerated in our Constitution.

    Further, it is the militia of a state and of the several states that the Constitution contemplates being used in any context, during any emergency within a state, not the standing army.

    The imposition of martial law by the national government over a state and its people, treating them as an occupied enemy nation, is an act of war. Such an attempted suspension of the Constitution and Bill of Rights voids the compact with the states and with the people.

    5. We will NOT obey orders to invade and subjugate any state that asserts its sovereignty and declares the national government to be in violation of the compact by which that state entered the Union.

    In response to the obscene growth of federal power and to the absurdly totalitarian claimed powers of the Executive, upwards of 20 states are considering, have considered, or have passed courageous resolutions affirming states rights and sovereignty.

    Those resolutions follow in the honored and revered footsteps of Jefferson and Madison in their Kentucky and Virginia Resolutions, and likewise seek to enforce the Constitution by affirming the very same principles of our Declaration, Constitution, and Bill of Rights that we Oath Keepers recognize and affirm.

    Chief among those principles is that ours is a dual sovereignty system, with the people of each state retaining all powers not granted to the national government they created, and thus the people of each state reserved to themselves the right to judge when the national government they created has voided the compact between the states by asserting powers never granted.

    Upon the declaration by a state that such a breach has occurred, we will not obey orders to force that state to submit to the national government.

    6. We will NOT obey any order to blockade American cities, thus turning them into giant concentration camps.

    One of the causes of the American Revolution was the blockade of Boston, and the occupying of that city by the British military, under martial law. Once hostilities began, the people of Boston were tricked into turning in their arms in exchange for safe passage, but were then forbidden to leave. That confinement of the residents of an entire city was an act of war.

    Such tactics were repeated by the Nazis in the Warsaw Ghetto, and by the Imperial Japanese in Nanking, turning entire cities into death camps. Any such order to disarm and confine the people of an American city will be an act of war and thus an act of treason.

    7. We will NOT obey any order to force American citizens into any form of detention camps under any pretext.

    Mass, forced internment into concentration camps was a hallmark of every fascist and communist dictatorship in the 20th Century. Such internment was unfortunately even used against American citizens of Japanese descent during World War II. Whenever a government interns its own people, it treats them like an occupied enemy population. Oppressive governments often use the internment of women and children to break the will of the men fighting for their liberty – as was done to the Boers, to the Jewish resisters in the Warsaw Ghetto, and to the Chechens, for example.

    Such a vile order to forcibly intern Americans without charges or trial would be an act of war against the American people, and thus an act of treason, regardless of the pretext used. We will not commit treason, nor will we facilitate or support it. “NOT on Our Watch!”

    8. We will NOT obey orders to assist or support the use of any foreign troops on U.S. soil against the American people to “keep the peace” or to “maintain control” during any emergency, or under any other pretext. We will consider such use of foreign troops against our people to be an invasion and an act of war.

    During the American Revolution, the British government enlisted the aid of Hessian mercenaries in an attempt to subjugate the rebellious American people. Throughout history, repressive regimes have enlisted the aid of foreign troops and mercenaries who have no bonds with the people.

    Accordingly, as the militia of the several states are the only military force contemplated by the Constitution, in Article I, Section 8, for domestic keeping of the peace, and as the use of even our own standing army for such purposes is without such constitutional support, the use of foreign troops and mercenaries against the people is wildly unconstitutional, egregious, and an act of war.

    We will oppose such troops as enemies of the people and we will treat all who request, invite, and aid those foreign troops as the traitors they are.

    9. We will NOT obey any orders to confiscate the property of the American people, including food and other essential supplies, under any emergency pretext whatsoever.

    One of the causes of the American Revolution was the seizure and forfeiture of American ships, goods, and supplies, along with the seizure of American timber for the Royal Navy, all in violation of the people’s natural right to their property and to the fruits of their labor. The final spark of the Revolution was the attempt by the government to seize powder and cannon stores at Concord.

    Deprivation of food has long been a weapon of war and oppression, with millions intentionally starved to death by fascist and communist governments in the 20th Century alone.

    Accordingly, we will not obey or facilitate orders to confiscate food and other essential supplies from the people, and we will consider all those who issue or carry out such orders to be the enemies of the people.

    10. We will NOT obey any orders which infringe on the right of the people to free speech, to peaceably assemble, and to petition their government for a redress of grievances.
     

    eruby

    Confederate Jew
    MDS Supporter
    Well written, and with many good points.

    But while I heartily support the cops, I doubt many of them will refuse to serve ERPOs. Doubtless they would not want to face losing their jobs for doing what they are lawfully (however stupid, and unconstitutional to us) paid to do.

    A member here called me out some time ago for saying I would not lose my job and turn my wife homeless. There are no easy answers.
     

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