jimbobborg
Oddball caliber fan
If I were to switch platforms, I'd go CZ.
My 9mm AR was filthy
- Thread starter jimbobborg
- Start date
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If I were to switch platforms, I'd go CZ.
BenL
John Galt Speaking.
Mags are definitely the weak link. Even with Metalform mags, you definitely need to test them before you try to run them.
jimbobborg
Oddball caliber fan
I just ordered four more ASC mags. Two 10s and two 32s. They will hopefully be here before Friday so I can test them.
boss281
Ultimate Member
I have 8 Colt brand (5 from 1995, 3 new) 32 rd, 4 Colt brand (1995) 20 rd and 4 Metalform 20 rd. Trying in both the old and new Colt rifle tomorrow and Thursday.
jimbobborg
Oddball caliber fan
I tested them out again tonight. Both of the ASCs were good after I cleaned them out, the C-Products work with 22 rounds in them, and the Colt is a fail. Looks like the lips spread out and up. I need to figure out how to fix it without burning through my 9mm stash. At least I'm good for this Saturday. I'd like to get my hands on the 10-round mags I have coming in by Friday, but I don't think they'll get here until Saturday. I'm pretty excited, I'm getting competitive. Now how am I going to sabotage myself? I think upgrading the optics is helping. I think I'll swap out the current railed handguard for a keymod rail.
Last edited:
boss281
Ultimate Member
Good news today. Spent 3 hours at the AGC range. As an aside, on the 5.56 side, I was able to get my new c-more railway red dot to zero properly from a 5.56 flat top. The combo with my fixed carry handle Colt 6450 9mm carbine didn't work, unfortunately, I think because the c-more can't zero "down" enough at that height. But at a normal height, the damn thing was hot out to 50 yards with little perceived "holdover" using the bench, and did well at 100 yards. NICE little inexpensive scope, I was surprised. So this red dot will go on my new/repaired Colt 6591 when it comes back after fixing the bolt catch issue. My goal is to use the 6951 as the primary competitive PCC with this scope.
Then I got to work on the 6450. For years, until my eyesight started getting i the way, I've simply used the A1 iron sights and was happy with the occasional jaunt to the range but today I brought, on a whim, an idle Vortex Strikefire II red dot that used to sit on a 5.56. I bought the rifle years ago from my brother filthy (Anne Arundel County was the only MD agency to purchase these for their officers in the 90s), but other than my usual cleaning (albeit more often that the 5.56), I used it as is. It's been flawless to date, although the original non-maintained magazines don't hold full loads well as the feed lips wear down.
I bought three boxes of ammo to test today: Winchester 115g FMJ, Winchester Super Clean 90g zinc core FMJ (thank you bfoosh006 for the recommendation), and Winchester WinClean 147g brass enclosed base. The 115g zero'd perfectly with the Strikefire II (see attached photo), and shot fine at 25 and 50 yards, with acceptable groups at 50 that SHOULD be fine for a PCC competition. I now have an acceptable backup rifle for PCC, and was absolutely thrilled. While I wasn't allowed to shoot standing since it was determined my target wasn't high enough at 25 yards, I sat but freehanded the rifle, and all shots were withing a 5" circle. On the bench within a 2" circle
The Super Clean and WinClean were true to their name, definitely a lot less junk on them (see other pic). I'll be using one or the other. Note the WinClean was NO different in accuracy at 50 yards compared to 25yards, stuff was dead on the same behavior at both distances, but the 115g and 90g Super Clean were fairly accurate as mentioned in the previous paragraph, but there was a clear distinction with the Super Clean as I shot 5 rounds of each back to back--the SC was slightly less accurate at 50. Good to know. Both more or less price competitive and I'll watch for deals. Here's what I paid at Lucky Gunner:
9mm - 90 Grain Zinc Core FMJ - Winchester Super Clean - 50 Rounds
9mm90grzincFMJWinW9MMLF-50 $15.00
Ordered: 5
Shipped: 5
$75.00
9mm - 147 Grain BEB - Winchester Winclean - 50 Rounds
9mm147BEBWinclean-50 $21.25
Ordered: 1
Shipped: 1
$21.25
One thing of note. I collected and inspected all of my brass today. ONE casing from the 115g collection split (see third picture). I've never seen that before.
Then I got to work on the 6450. For years, until my eyesight started getting i the way, I've simply used the A1 iron sights and was happy with the occasional jaunt to the range but today I brought, on a whim, an idle Vortex Strikefire II red dot that used to sit on a 5.56. I bought the rifle years ago from my brother filthy (Anne Arundel County was the only MD agency to purchase these for their officers in the 90s), but other than my usual cleaning (albeit more often that the 5.56), I used it as is. It's been flawless to date, although the original non-maintained magazines don't hold full loads well as the feed lips wear down.
I bought three boxes of ammo to test today: Winchester 115g FMJ, Winchester Super Clean 90g zinc core FMJ (thank you bfoosh006 for the recommendation), and Winchester WinClean 147g brass enclosed base. The 115g zero'd perfectly with the Strikefire II (see attached photo), and shot fine at 25 and 50 yards, with acceptable groups at 50 that SHOULD be fine for a PCC competition. I now have an acceptable backup rifle for PCC, and was absolutely thrilled. While I wasn't allowed to shoot standing since it was determined my target wasn't high enough at 25 yards, I sat but freehanded the rifle, and all shots were withing a 5" circle. On the bench within a 2" circle
The Super Clean and WinClean were true to their name, definitely a lot less junk on them (see other pic). I'll be using one or the other. Note the WinClean was NO different in accuracy at 50 yards compared to 25yards, stuff was dead on the same behavior at both distances, but the 115g and 90g Super Clean were fairly accurate as mentioned in the previous paragraph, but there was a clear distinction with the Super Clean as I shot 5 rounds of each back to back--the SC was slightly less accurate at 50. Good to know. Both more or less price competitive and I'll watch for deals. Here's what I paid at Lucky Gunner:
9mm - 90 Grain Zinc Core FMJ - Winchester Super Clean - 50 Rounds
9mm90grzincFMJWinW9MMLF-50 $15.00
Ordered: 5
Shipped: 5
$75.00
9mm - 147 Grain BEB - Winchester Winclean - 50 Rounds
9mm147BEBWinclean-50 $21.25
Ordered: 1
Shipped: 1
$21.25
One thing of note. I collected and inspected all of my brass today. ONE casing from the 115g collection split (see third picture). I've never seen that before.
Attachments
boss281
Ultimate Member
In my hands, with a 22 year old straight from the factory Colt rifle, yes. Folks here talk about how filthy their rifles get too. Then again, just changing to "clean" burning rounds and it all clears up...
FWIW ...Every Metalform Mag I have bought needs to be cleaned of its "Packing / Shipping" preservative... it is quite gummy.
The 9MM AR is a Blowback system, IE ..only the spring and BCG/ buffer are holding the breach closed. ... your 9MM handgun has some sort of locking breach.. and just that little bit makes all the difference.
Just to be clear... pretty much all the 147gr rds were "sonic" after being fired in my 16" Chrono test... just food for thought if you are going to use a suppressor with a 16" barrel.
Only the 158gr rds were still subsonic.
- Jul 29, 2014
- 49,963
No. Mine tend to be a little sooty, just as any case from any suppressed gun would be. Those show signs of something more(to me, but I don't know the cause). It looks like out of battery firing but I'm only guessing. That charring seems extreme to me.
boss281
Ultimate Member
Interesting, standard 115g has always looked like this, my assumption was this was normal. I'm going to estimate 4000 rounds maybe total??? That said, I've also heard that Winchester white box 115g is a dirty round anyhow, but it's what I've always used until someone mentioned the SuperClean round. I don't shoot pistol so I can't comment on blow by on that platform.
- Jul 29, 2014
- 49,963
Could be my limited experience with different ammo. I only shoot subs. I've never found 9mm brass that looks like that on the range. I would like to hear from others on this though.
Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
- Jul 29, 2014
- 49,963
I'm shooting through a 5" barrel. Don't know how much difference that would make, if any.
Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
I just took my Stag 9mm AR out today and the brass was filthy. Figured it was cause off it being a blow back gun. But, if yours don't look like that, I wonder if it could be the buffer and spring weight?
I just ordered a Spike's heavy 9mm buffer and flat wire spring, I'll see if that makes any difference?
- Jul 29, 2014
- 49,963
Whatever was in it when I bought it. I bought it used off Gunbroker so I have no idea how many rounds are through it.
- Jul 29, 2014
- 49,963
I just dumped all mine in the bucket to sort later. Mine were dirtier than that though.
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