What permit will you use if National Reciprocity passes

abu Haqiqa · Feb 17, 2017

rmiddle said:
Most out of state permits have provisions in them that require you to have one in your home state if it is recognized including the Utah permit. So everyone who has a Utah permit losses them shortly after the reciprocal bill passes. It would make people like me who live outside of MD being able to carry in MD but it will hurt many MD gun owners at least a first. Now I could see what happen in Ohio happening in MD. The courts in Ohio allowed open carry and after a few days of open carry the state decided they would prefer not seeing them. So they passed a conceal carry shortly after open carry was made legal.

I don't think that's clear. It may be the case that once national reciprocity is passed, a MD resident who wants to apply for (or possibly renew) a Utah non-res CCW would have to provide a copy of a MD wear-and-carry permit, but that's completely different from invalidating permits already issued.

Do you have an actual source for the statement in bold?

swinokur · Feb 18, 2017

That statement about most states requiring a home state permit before issuance is flat out wrong.

https://www.mdshooters.com/showpost.php?p=4670473&postcount=114

Worst nightmare · Feb 18, 2017

What's the latest on this actually getting passed so we can conceal carry in md?

Keystone70 · Feb 18, 2017

abu Haqiqa said:
I don't think that's clear. It may be the case that once national reciprocity is passed, a MD resident who wants to apply for (or possibly renew) a Utah non-res CCW would have to provide a copy of a MD wear-and-carry permit, but that's completely different from invalidating permits already issued.

Do you have an actual source for the statement in bold?

The provision you speak of is a state law. National reciprocity is federal. Does that really mean that MD actually has direct reciprocity just because they have to follow federal law. Good question.

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swinokur · Feb 19, 2017

If it does, simply get a permit from a state that does not require it.

VA, CT, ME, FL, AZ, NV, NH and TX have no such requirement and issue NR permits.

ETA_IANAL, but I don't think a Federal statute requiring a state to recognize another state's permit could be construed to be reciprocity. MD is specifically listed a s a state that does not recognize the UT permit.

https://bci.utah.gov/concealed-firearm/reciprocity-with-other-states/

swinokur · Feb 19, 2017

MD may be forced into accepting your UT permit, but I do not ever see MD recognizing any states' permit officially, other than the state law or COMAR possible being amended to say any state's permit is valid in MD. Or an AG opinion.

It's not in MD's MGA DNA to change their views on CCW permits, other than begrudgingly allowing them for carry. Just my thoughts.

The UT language is specific about the need for a home state permit before applying. Does MDs acceptance of any permit under National Reciprocity constitute recognition? If it does, get another NR permit. problem solved.

But that's just my uneducated opinion.

YMMV.
.

Keystone70 · Feb 19, 2017

swinokur said:
MD may be forced into accepting your UT permit, but I do not ever see MD recognizing any states' permit officially, other than the state law or COMAR possible being amended to say any state's permit is valid in MD. Or an AG opinion.

It's not in MD's MGA DNA to change their views on CCW permits, other than begrudgingly allowing them for carry. Just my thoughts.

The UT language is specific about the need for a home state permit before applying. Does MDs acceptance of any permit under National Reciprocity constitute recognition? If it does, get another NR permit. problem solved.

But that's just my uneducated opinion.

YMMV.
.

That is why I question that Utah may cut us off. Their law states that the other state (MD) must have resiprocity with them. Time will tell.

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swinokur · Feb 19, 2017

Actually it states recognition, or has reciprocity. Of course MD has neither. A change in the statute or COMAR simply saying MD accepts any permit might not be construed as reciprocity or recognition by UT.

Guess we'll see.

vinjet700 · Feb 19, 2017

FL or Ut..... Already have them, might as well use them

swinokur · Feb 19, 2017

There is no ambiguity about FL. They have no home state first permit requirement.

Worst nightmare · Feb 19, 2017

I have a UT and it seems to me that they are quite up to speed on what's going on in these blue states and are willing to be flexible so that people can actually utilize the 2nd A.

SigMatt · Feb 19, 2017

I have Florida, Utah and Virginia non-resident permits. More than covered.

Matt

swinokur · Feb 19, 2017

Worst nightmare said:
I have a UT and it seems to me that they are quite up to speed on what's going on in these blue states and are willing to be flexible so that people can actually utilize the 2nd A.

The question is whether UT will define MD "recognition" if MD is compelled to honor all other states 'permits via national reciprocity, thus requiring a MD W&C permit before UT would issue a NR permit. Don't see it happening but IANAL. I have more than enough permits to not be concerned about it.

YMMV

abu Haqiqa · Feb 19, 2017

swinokur said:
The question is whether UT will define MD "recognition" if MD is compelled to honor all other states 'permits via national reciprocity, thus requiring a MD W&C permit before UT would issue a NR permit. Don't see it happening but IANAL. I have more than enough permits to not be concerned about it.

YMMV

Exactly. The question is how national reciprocity impacts Utah's interpretation of its "recognizes the validity of the Utah CFP or has reciprocity with Utah" language. I don't see MD changing its laws to explicitly recognize other states, but if national reciprocity happens, they won't have to because, you know, Supremacy Clause.

Many of us added Utah non-res to our HQL course for an additional fee, as the two are often bundled, so it would be frustrating if we had to get yet another permit when the time comes.

General Disclaimer: IAAL, but not yours. If you think this post constitutes legal advice, get your head checked.

Jano · Apr 1, 2017

getting a utah permit living in md will never help bc md will never honor any state + you have to be approved in md before any non-res permit will work. Md never approves and even if they do it will have restrictions so for a reg civilian its impossible.

montoya32 · Apr 2, 2017

Jano said:
getting a utah permit living in md will never help bc md will never honor any state + you have to be approved in md before any non-res permit will work. Md never approves and even if they do it will have restrictions so for a reg civilian its impossible.

MEGARMS · Apr 2, 2017

Jano said:
getting a utah permit living in md will never help bc md will never honor any state + you have to be approved in md before any non-res permit will work. Md never approves and even if they do it will have restrictions so for a reg civilian its impossible.

I am so glad that this is the first post showing up in my email today. It really started off my Sunday with a giggle. :rofl:

swinokur · Apr 2, 2017

Jano said:
getting a utah permit living in md will never help bc md will never honor any state + you have to be approved in md before any non-res permit will work. Md never approves and even if they do it will have restrictions so for a reg civilian its impossible.

.

sgt23preston · Apr 2, 2017

What's is the current status of this Bill as of 4/2/2017..?

swinokur · Apr 2, 2017

Both versions still in committee.

What permit will you use if National Reciprocity passes

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What state's permit will you use to carry in MD under National Reciprocity?

Out of state non resident permit (Utah, Florida, ect)

Out of state resident permit (you don't live in MD)

Current MD Wear and Carry permit

MD permit if it were shall issue, cost less than $100, 16 hours training, no restrictions, and no G&

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You're going to stamp your feet until MD is constitutional carry

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