Hornady 160gr. FTX w/LeverEvolution

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  • Uncle Duke

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 2, 2013
    11,667
    Not Far Enough from the City
    My .30-30 Marlin 336 is my second oldest rifle, purchased in 1984 if my memory serves. It's also the rifle I've done the least amount of loading for, of any that I own. Been meaning to try the Hornady 160 grain FTX over LeverEvolution powder for quite some time now, and never got around to it until today.

    The 7 shots you see all over the paper (1 is hard to see but is just off the paper right) are the Hornady/LeverEvolution loads. I had made up 5 seperate 7 shot batches, each charged with LeverEvolution in 1% increments to within 98% of listed max. All were loaded to Hornady specs. All 5 groups looked similarly ugly to this photo, as in wildly ugly.

    Just when I was sure I must have shot something loose, I shot my usual 170 grain Hornady flat points over W748 as a control. Those 7 shots are all within 2 inches of each other. They represent a typical size grouping for my lever rifle, with some groups being somewhat better when the guy on the trigger does a better job. All at 100 yards.

    Now I've seen "doesn't like" when it comes to handloads before. This one however, makes some bad loads look great, and has me scratching my head.
     

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    iH8DemLibz

    When All Else Fails.
    Apr 1, 2013
    25,396
    Libtardistan
    A .30-30 scatter gun. Whodathunkit.

    I've had some UGLY groups from reloading, but that one takes the prize.

    Being close to max load data, that bullet simply isn't fond of that barrel.

    I have Browning ABII in .243 that is picky about bullets. Hornady.....3 inch groups. Speer......5/8ths groups. Same bullet weight. Same powder. Same charge weight.
     

    Uncle Duke

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 2, 2013
    11,667
    Not Far Enough from the City
    A .30-30 scatter gun. Whodathunkit.

    I've had some UGLY groups from reloading, but that one takes the prize.

    Being close to max load data, that bullet simply isn't fond of that barrel.

    I have Browning ABII in .243 that is picky about bullets. Hornady.....3 inch groups. Speer......5/8ths groups. Same bullet weight. Same powder. Same charge weight.

    Same bullet length and configuration?

    It happens. Part of the charm of reloading :)

    This is going to drive me nuts.

    Here's a purpose built lever action bullet, and a special niche lever action manufactured powder. Bullet has a much better than standard flat point ballistic coefficient, on top of a powder said to be producing much better than typical velocity. Together, truly a.30-30 game changer if the performance is as advertised. And there are what, about 5 million Marlin 336's in captivity?

    Hodgdon and Hornady don't make junk.
    I'm missing something here. Something isn't adding up for these lever action designed loads to be shooting so unbelievably bad.
     

    iH8DemLibz

    When All Else Fails.
    Apr 1, 2013
    25,396
    Libtardistan
    Same bullet length and configuration?



    This is going to drive me nuts.

    Here's a purpose built lever action bullet, and a special niche lever action manufactured powder. Bullet has a much better than standard flat point ballistic coefficient, on top of a powder said to be producing much better than typical velocity. Together, truly a.30-30 game changer if the performance is as advertised. And there are what, about 5 million Marlin 336's in captivity?

    Hodgdon and Hornady don't make junk.
    I'm missing something here. Something isn't adding up for these lever action designed loads to be shooting so unbelievably bad.

    Same everything.

    Those Hornady bullets just didn't like that rifling.

    When I stumbled across the 100 grain Speer bullet grouping, I stacked them deep.
     

    Uncle Duke

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 2, 2013
    11,667
    Not Far Enough from the City
    Same everything.

    Those Hornady bullets just didn't like that rifling.

    When I stumbled across the 100 grain Speer bullet grouping, I stacked them deep.

    Gotcha. Like you, I've seen plenty of combos work really well together. Others, not so much, and hard to explain.

    What's odd about this one is how truly bad it is, AND with a bullet and powder combo supposedly built strictly for lever action enhancement application. If I worked for Hornady or Hodgdon, I'd look at that mess and just cringe. And I'm not placing blame. It is what it is. The target doesn't lie. It just seems so unlikely for it to be that bad, given a purpose built combo, and I can't figure out "why". But there's undoubtedly a "why" behind what that target shows.
     

    BradMacc82

    Ultimate Member
    Industry Partner
    Aug 17, 2011
    26,177
    I have yet to roll a round for my dads 336CS (late 70's/early 80's IIRC), it's one caliber that I always see on the shelf. Just haven't made the jump yet.
     

    Uncle Duke

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 2, 2013
    11,667
    Not Far Enough from the City
    I have yet to roll a round for my dads 336CS (late 70's/early 80's IIRC), it's one caliber that I always see on the shelf. Just haven't made the jump yet.

    Sounds like me, and I jump around too much.

    I've been bitten a bit by the lever gun bug here of late. Years ago, I loaded IMR3031 in that rifle. Killed my share of deer with it. But it likes W748 a tad better, and I'm trying H335 as well, but haven't shot any yet. Just something different to play with. I really thought that LeverEvolution and the FTX bullets would be a whole other avenue to explore with this old cartridge. Hell, nobody shoots .30-30 because it's a ballistics champ. But I was and remain really surprised by that level of bad.
     

    BradMacc82

    Ultimate Member
    Industry Partner
    Aug 17, 2011
    26,177
    Yeah, that's a different level of bad. I've seen rifles keyhole with better groupings.

    For some reason, that combo just doesn't shoot in your 336. I couldn't even call that a 'scatter node', I'd call that a pattern. Time to switch variables? Same bullet, diff't powder, etc.?
     

    Uncle Duke

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 2, 2013
    11,667
    Not Far Enough from the City
    Today's best effort with my Marlin 336 lever in .30-30 Winchester, this time with H335 and the 170 grain Hornady flat point.

    Going to make up a few more of these H335 loads, and some of the W748 loads from last week that I thought showed promise, and see if I can again replicate decent groupings. If either or both again look good, I'll see what the chrono has to say.

    Still want to double back and try to figure out that LeverEvolution/FTX mess though.
     

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    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,881
    Don't know if you already addressed this, but due to the length of the FTX bullets , the factory loads use a shorter than standard case . Did to trim your cases to match those , or using standard length cases ?
     

    Uncle Duke

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 2, 2013
    11,667
    Not Far Enough from the City
    Don't know if you already addressed this, but due to the length of the FTX bullets , the factory loads use a shorter than standard case . Did to trim your cases to match those , or using standard length cases ?

    44, Now you've got me wondering.....

    No, definitely standard trim length. I am aware of the shorter case requirement with FTX bullets in some cartridges. The .45-70 is one that comes to mind. But I am not aware of any such requirement with FTX with .30-30 Win.

    Don't have Hornady #10 in front of me....maybe I missed something? I'll definitely have to check that out....perhaps overlooked....thanks!
     

    BUFF7MM

    ☠Buff➐㎣☠
    Mar 4, 2009
    13,576
    Garrett County
    44, Now you've got me wondering.....

    No, definitely standard trim length. I am aware of the shorter case requirement with FTX bullets in some cartridges. The .45-70 is one that comes to mind. But I am not aware of any such requirement with FTX with .30-30 Win.

    Don't have Hornady #10 in front of me....maybe I missed something? I'll definitely have to check that out....perhaps overlooked....thanks!

    Here you go, I’m not seeing any shorter trim length.
     

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    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,881
    Could be wrong . I know it is .45-70, and "think" .35Rem . But easy to follow up with phone call or email to Hornaday to confirm .
     

    Uncle Duke

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 2, 2013
    11,667
    Not Far Enough from the City
    Could be wrong . I know it is .45-70, and "think" .35Rem . But easy to follow up with phone call or email to Hornaday to confirm .

    Could indeed be a good call to make. If anybody is on top of what's going on with that FTX bullet, and maybe to include somebody else's crazy kind of happenings, it would stand to reason that it would be them.
     

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