NFA FAQ **Read me first**

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  • Question about NFA stamp possession. I know when you take an NFA item to a range or shooting somewhere off your property, you have to have a copy of your NFA stamp. Does that also apply if you're on your personal property? I use my SBR and can regularly and almost always on the farm, so wanted to know if it was required to have a copy of them even if I'm on my property where I wouldn't be running into any LEO
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,816
    Question about NFA stamp possession. I know when you take an NFA item to a range or shooting somewhere off your property, you have to have a copy of your NFA stamp. Does that also apply if you're on your personal property? I use my SBR and can regularly and almost always on the farm, so wanted to know if it was required to have a copy of them even if I'm on my property where I wouldn't be running into any LEO

    Theoretically, it isn't required anywhere. Having said that, I carry a binder in my main range bag with copies of all my stamps. I also have most my stamps copied to my cell phone. On your own property, no worries. You are GTG.
     
    Theoretically, it isn't required anywhere. Having said that, I carry a binder in my main range bag with copies of all my stamps. I also have most my stamps copied to my cell phone. On your own property, no worries. You are GTG.
    Yeah I have copies stuffed into the storage spot of my Magpul grip, but being out in nature means those are more likely to get dirty or wet

    Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
     

    Hawkeye

    The Leatherstocking
    Jan 29, 2009
    3,971
    I know when you take an NFA item to a range or shooting somewhere off your property, you have to have a copy of your NFA stamp.

    No, you are not.

    This is one of the most common misconceptions about NFA stuff. Nowhere, in any law does it say that you are required to carry a copy of your stamp with you anywhere. All that it says is that you are required to produce proof of proper registration (i.e. your approved Form 1 or Form 4) upon request of an agent of the ATF. (Well, what the law actually says is "upon request of the secretary" meaning the secretary of the treasury, but that power is delegated to the ATF.) The law does not specify that you have to produce it immediately, or in any specific time frame, just that if they ask you for it you have to provide it.

    Remember, the Form 1 and Form 4 are tax documents. They are proof that you've paid your tax on the item in question. I don't carry my W2 or 1099, or 1040 around with me, and I don't carry my Form 1 or Form 4 with me either.

    Now, owners of private property like a shooting range sometimes have policies where they ask to see paperwork for NFA stuff before letting you use it there, and that's their prerogative. It's not something I like to normalize, though, because it continues the FUD around NFA stuff and normalizes the idea that NFA items are somehow super special extra deadly eeeeevil machines that we should all be scared of. The excuse is often "but we need to make sure no one is breaking the law on our range." My answer to that is to ask how they know that the guy on lane 3 with the Glock, or the woman on lane 5 with the Sig aren't prohibited people, or those aren't stolen guns? Do they check paperwork on every gun that comes to their range? It's within their rights to ask, but I won't shoot there if they do.

    Anyhow, this is a personal pet peeve of mine.
     

    lockandload

    Active Member
    Oct 26, 2012
    231
    Hawkeye, that is one of the most profound statements on this subject i have heard. I find myself thinking about this more times than i care to. In 7 years i was asked for my ppwrk once at a local indoor range.

    There is definately a perception. Several times when i am at range and feel others looking at my suppressors i offer them some trigger time, answer a myriad of dopey questions before i remind myself that someone once took the time to answer my questions.
     

    Hawkeye

    The Leatherstocking
    Jan 29, 2009
    3,971
    Yup!

    I never get tired of letting new folks shoot my NFA stuff. It always makes converts, and it's a chance to dispel some of the misunderstandings around them. I let a couple of women shoot my suppressed Ruger MK IV last time I had it out, and I could see the "oooh I want one of these" in both of their eyes.
     

    River02

    One Ping Only...
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 19, 2015
    3,924
    Mid-Maryland
    First Time Form 1

    Folks-

    Finally getting around to filling out my first Form 1. I want to take my DD MK18 AR-15 pistol and apply to make it an SBR. I've filled out the form 1 but have some lingering questions that I'd appreciate some clarification on. I'd like to get this right the first time so your assistance would be most appreciated.

    Here goes--

    Box 4b. Should I type in "SBR" or "Short Barrel Rifle" or something else?

    Box 4c. The lower has "Multi" engraved for caliber. Is that the correct answer or should I type in "5.56" or "5.56mm" or something else?

    Box 4d. The lower has "DDM4" engraved for the Model but the upper also adds MMK18. Should I type in "DDM4" and leave it as that or use "DDM4 MK18"

    Box 4h. should reflect what is in Box 3b. with regards to full legal name, city and State. I don't have a trust-- does anything additional go in Box 4h?

    Box 4I. I have "Any lawful purpose" and nothing else. Is this correct?

    Box 4J. I DO NOT check either box. Is this correct?

    Box 5 and 6 leave empty (I don't have an FFL)

    Box 18 and 19: Leave empty because I don't have a trust

    All of the signature blocks except for the ATF authorized official signature block are crossed out. Does this mean I do not need to sign this form anywhere as the applicant/maker? Seems strange if that is the case. Or, am I supposed to sign over the cross in the boxes?

    Well-- that's it for now. Thanks in advance for your help
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,816
    Folks-

    Finally getting around to filling out my first Form 1. I want to take my DD MK18 AR-15 pistol and apply to make it an SBR. I've filled out the form 1 but have some lingering questions that I'd appreciate some clarification on. I'd like to get this right the first time so your assistance would be most appreciated.

    Here goes--

    Box 4b. Should I type in "SBR" or "Short Barrel Rifle" or something else?

    Box 4c. The lower has "Multi" engraved for caliber. Is that the correct answer or should I type in "5.56" or "5.56mm" or something else?

    Box 4d. The lower has "DDM4" engraved for the Model but the upper also adds MMK18. Should I type in "DDM4" and leave it as that or use "DDM4 MK18"

    Box 4h. should reflect what is in Box 3b. with regards to full legal name, city and State. I don't have a trust-- does anything additional go in Box 4h?

    Box 4I. I have "Any lawful purpose" and nothing else. Is this correct?

    Box 4J. I DO NOT check either box. Is this correct?

    Box 5 and 6 leave empty (I don't have an FFL)

    Box 18 and 19: Leave empty because I don't have a trust

    All of the signature blocks except for the ATF authorized official signature block are crossed out. Does this mean I do not need to sign this form anywhere as the applicant/maker? Seems strange if that is the case. Or, am I supposed to sign over the cross in the boxes?

    Well-- that's it for now. Thanks in advance for your help

    If you are doing a "paper" form 1, this should help...

     

    River02

    One Ping Only...
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 19, 2015
    3,924
    Mid-Maryland
    If you are doing a "paper" form 1, this should help...



    Thanks for posting the video Outrider--

    Unfortunately-- the instructor uses the previous version of the Form 1 from 2017 (which is out of whack with the 2019 version--go figure) and glosses over several of the areas of concern for me in section 4.

    The video helped clear up a couple of areas of concern but my questions on my previous post regarding 4c, 4d, and 4i still stand. As well as the signature stuff.

    Thanks again for the response
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,816
    Thanks for posting the video Outrider--

    Unfortunately-- the instructor uses the previous version of the Form 1 from 2017 (which is out of whack with the 2019 version--go figure) and glosses over several of the areas of concern for me in section 4.

    The video helped clear up a couple of areas of concern but my questions on my previous post regarding 4c, 4d, and 4i still stand. As well as the signature stuff.

    Thanks again for the response

    4c) When I was doing them, I always put the caliber of the build. In the case of an AR SBR, You can put other caliber uppers on your [SBR] lower, as long as you keep the original caliber listed, operational. So put the caliber of your proposed build. If you permanently change either the caliber or barrel length, it is advisable to notify the ATFE of the permanent changes.

    4d) I would put the model name that is stamped on the lower itself, as that is the part that will be engraved. The upper will no longer count in that regard.

    4i) Some people write "For all legal purposes", while other will write "For collecting and all other legal uses". This is basically a sworn statement that you are legally qualified to build this rifle and to own such a rifle. You're pretty much saying you don't intend to hold up banks with it, etc.

    IANAL but do like to argue with them from time to time...

    ETA: In the case of 4d, some people choose to engrave the upper, instead of engraving the lower. That way, if they want to someday sell the lower, it isn't engraved. To me, it is a needless precaution. But for others, it makes better sense.
     

    babalou

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 12, 2013
    16,019
    Glenelg
    Engraved upper

    4c) When I was doing them, I always put the caliber of the build. In the case of an AR SBR, You can put other caliber uppers on your [SBR] lower, as long as you keep the original caliber listed, operational. So put the caliber of your proposed build. If you permanently change either the caliber or barrel length, it is advisable to notify the ATFE of the permanent changes.

    4d) I would put the model name that is stamped on the lower itself, as that is the part that will be engraved. The upper will no longer count in that regard.

    4i) Some people write "For all legal purposes", while other will write "For collecting and all other legal uses". This is basically a sworn statement that you are legally qualified to build this rifle and to own such a rifle. You're pretty much saying you don't intend to hold up banks with it, etc.

    IANAL but do like to argue with them from time to time...

    ETA: In the case of 4d, some people choose to engrave the upper, instead of engraving the lower. That way, if they want to someday sell the lower, it isn't engraved. To me, it is a needless precaution. But for others, it makes better sense.

    if the upper is engraved, then if you replace the upper on that lower, you could then use a normal length upper- non SBR, and if you put that SBR upper on another lower, you are GTG.... Whereas, if you do the lower, that SBR upper needs to stay with it, even if taken off and a non SBR upper put on the lower? CAnnot move that SBR upper to another lower, correct- unless that lower is also engraved?
     

    River02

    One Ping Only...
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 19, 2015
    3,924
    Mid-Maryland
    This might help:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/NFA/comments/92ympt/atf_form_1_nfa_tax_stamp_walkthrough_guide/

    I hope you are using the eForm 1, that will net you a <30 day approval time as opposed to a paper Form 1 will have you at 3 months or more.

    Thank you-- this is perfect...just what I needed. I appreciate the response.

    4c) When I was doing them, I always put the caliber of the build. In the case of an AR SBR, You can put other caliber uppers on your [SBR] lower, as long as you keep the original caliber listed, operational. So put the caliber of your proposed build. If you permanently change either the caliber or barrel length, it is advisable to notify the ATFE of the permanent changes.

    4d) I would put the model name that is stamped on the lower itself, as that is the part that will be engraved. The upper will no longer count in that regard.

    4i) Some people write "For all legal purposes", while other will write "For collecting and all other legal uses". This is basically a sworn statement that you are legally qualified to build this rifle and to own such a rifle. You're pretty much saying you don't intend to hold up banks with it, etc.

    IANAL but do like to argue with them from time to time...

    ETA: In the case of 4d, some people choose to engrave the upper, instead of engraving the lower. That way, if they want to someday sell the lower, it isn't engraved. To me, it is a needless precaution. But for others, it makes better sense.

    Again, Outrider thanks for the valued input-- great thoughts on the engraving I had not yet considered.
     

    Mr.Smalls

    Active Member
    Mar 24, 2017
    175
    Queen Anne's
    I finally making my first SBR and hit a snag. I've been reading some guides on the EForm-1 and they say that the fingerprints have to be done on a card and mailed to ATF. With everything going paperless, Is this still viable? and if so, where or how do I get the cards? Thanks for the help.
     

    Sundazes

    My brain hurts
    MDS Supporter
    Nov 13, 2006
    21,299
    Arkham
    I finally making my first SBR and hit a snag. I've been reading some guides on the EForm-1 and they say that the fingerprints have to be done on a card and mailed to ATF. With everything going paperless, Is this still viable? and if so, where or how do I get the cards? Thanks for the help.

    Some places that do ink will have the cards to purchase. They are standard FBI cards. I forget the actual form number.
    Call Absolute Investigations, they will have them. I go the the Towson location, but they have a couple more.
     

    Saberwalk

    Member
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 13, 2020
    79
    Laytonsville, MD
    I finally making my first SBR and hit a snag. I've been reading some guides on the EForm-1 and they say that the fingerprints have to be done on a card and mailed to ATF. With everything going paperless, Is this still viable? and if so, where or how do I get the cards? Thanks for the help.

    Some of the ones that use Livescan or similar can scan your prints digitally and print out the card. Did this on my most recent SBR a couple of months ago, no issues. They also kept it on file for me for a month in case I needed to print another set, for a small fee of course.
     

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