Spotting scope question

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  • MdShooter1

    Member
    Oct 7, 2020
    12
    What would be a minimum magnification needed to see a 22 cal hole in, 1) a paper target, 2) a splatter target, at 200 yds?
     

    ken792

    Ultimate Member
    Sep 2, 2011
    4,480
    Fairfax, VA
    It depends on the quality of the scope, the lighting conditions, the type of paper, the color of the paper, the background behind the paper, and the heat mirage. A cheap scope with bad optics isn’t going to get a clear picture.

    This Saturday, when the heat mirage wasn’t bad, I could just make out most of my .223 hits in the black at 200yd on a standard SR paper target with my cheap Konus 20-60 on the 20x setting. Once the ground heated up and the mirage got worse, it became more difficult. I don’t usually dial up the magnification since the picture isn’t as crisp and bright, but it does slightly help spotting those hits.
     

    dontpanic

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 7, 2013
    6,631
    Timonium
    I can see .223 holes at 200 yds with a 20x Leupold.
    It's hit or miss with my crappy 40x scope. The picture is plenty big, but not clear at all.
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    With optics, you get what you pay for.

    Power without clarity is worthless.

    Clarity is KING.
     

    dannyp

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 30, 2018
    1,463
    on the same theme , where is the "sweet spot " at cost versus clarity ? i can't , won't buy a ziess spotting scope , where does the money spent equal value ?
     

    Uncle Duke

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 2, 2013
    11,665
    Not Far Enough from the City
    on the same theme , where is the "sweet spot " at cost versus clarity ? i can't , won't buy a ziess spotting scope , where does the money spent equal value ?

    Much depends on range, environmental conditions, mirage or lack thereof, color of target, and available light and angle. Also, don't discount the importance of your tripod. Clarity disappears quickly in scopes that are moving even slightly.

    At 100 yards, I have a 75 dollar straight 20 power x40 Tasco that works just fine. Purchased as my first spotting scope deep in the last century, I keep it in my range box, and use it much of the time.

    I later won a 20x60x80 Simmons spotting scope. It will usually perform adequately at 200 yards. That scope would have cost around 150 bucks or so then.

    Beyond that, I can't speak to anything I myself own, but rather can only relate to what I've looked through. In my opinion, you'll definitely notice differences in clarity between more and less expensive scopes at 100 yards, but your inexpensive scope will likely be quite usable. My 150 dollar Simmons is great at 100 yards. If that's all the further you shoot, you can probably get away with a scope as inexpensive as my Tasco, as that's all the scope you'll typically need. At 200 yards, my 150 dollar Simmons scope can likewise be usable much of the time. But, given an opportunity to compare, the difference in clarity of a better scope at 200 yards becomes striking. And at 300 yards, setting up my Simmons is largely a waste of time.

    If there's a spot where you're likely to be pretty much wasting your time with a 150 dollar scope, I think out past 200 yards pretty much becomes that defining line in my experience. Now, I think you definitely start making some appreciably larger price jumps to have something usable. In other words, I can see well enough to be able to define holes with my 150 dollar scope at 200 yards on a good day, and in good conditions. But I can see noticably better, with a look through the 500 dollar scope of the shooter next to me, who was kind enough to let me have a look.

    There's good, and there's better. There's also good enough, depending upon what you want to do, and what you do most often. Much also depends of course, on just how attached you might be, to having and keeping a thick wallet.
     

    JohnnyE

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 18, 2013
    9,461
    MoCo
    My Nikon 20-60x scope has given good service with Birchwood Casey Shoot-N-C targets shooting .223/5.56 out to 300 yards. 400 is doable if there isn't much mirage, but beyond 400 fuhgeddaboudit.

    I went with Nikon because as an optics company I thought their glass would be excellent. Of course, my wallet took a hit, but buy once, cry once is a mantra of mine.
     

    4g64loser

    Bad influence
    Jan 18, 2007
    6,381
    maryland
    Probably an unpopular opinion, but the zeiss spotters are actually very good. The gavia has incredible clarity, even at high power. OP asked about money equalizing value. I'd say for paper hole spotting, zeiss or swaro midline models will be good value (and will hold that value). The nightforce spotters are good but their color palette is "cooler" and I prefer neutral to warm as I am usually looking at targets in natural terrain. Honestly, if you are capable of holding them steady, zeiss victory 15x binos will do as well as many good spotters untill the mirage starts to roll.
     

    JohnnyE

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 18, 2013
    9,461
    MoCo
    Probably an unpopular opinion, but the zeiss spotters are actually very good. The gavia has incredible clarity, even at high power. OP asked about money equalizing value. I'd say for paper hole spotting, zeiss or swaro midline models will be good value (and will hold that value). The nightforce spotters are good but their color palette is "cooler" and I prefer neutral to warm as I am usually looking at targets in natural terrain. Honestly, if you are capable of holding them steady, zeiss victory 15x binos will do as well as many good spotters untill the mirage starts to roll.

    Two other great optics companies for sure.

    I always get miffed when I hear swaro because my brother worked for one of their divisions and got a nice discount on all swaro purchases EXCEPT optics. :mad54:
     

    4g64loser

    Bad influence
    Jan 18, 2007
    6,381
    maryland
    Swaro doesn't give discounts to anyone. Let's just say that I know what is paid by sponsored shooters for kahles (one of their divisions) and it is a lot more than most would think. Great glass though. I am contemplating a set of their companion binos for keeping in my pack.

    Another option for OP is the (discontinued) Field Observation Scope. Great piece of kit. If you can find one new old stock or lightly used, grab it. Should have bought one years ago when they were made.
     

    Antarctica

    YEEEEEHAWWW!!!!
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 29, 2012
    1,728
    Southern Anne Arundel
    In new scopes, Kowa seems to get the nod for value/price ratio. I have an older Nikon 82MM (75x) that is absolutely fantastic. Its only shortcoming is the short eye relief. In high dollar scopes, the differentiator is the coatings that translate in light gathering ability and being able to see better at duck than with the naked eye. If you want to convince yourself you need a swaro, spend a little time on rockslide...

    There's really no reason to spend that kind of money for a range scope unless you just want to..

    Do yourself a favor and don't look through any glass that you aren't willing to pay for. Everything else will suck after that.
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    Do yourself a favor and don't look through any glass that you aren't willing to pay for. Everything else will suck after that.

    THIS ^^^^^^^

    The problem with optics is, if you look at two side by side, you WILL see the difference.

    I have an old Tasco, that works OK. I picked up a Vortex Nomad. It worked very well at 100 yards. And was MUCH better than the Tasco.

    I did a long range shooting course and got to use a Vortex Viper HD. WOW.

    I picked up a good deal on a used Gen 1 Vortex Razor. DOUBLE WOW.
     

    atblis

    Ultimate Member
    May 23, 2010
    2,011
    When these discussions arise, typically people will start trotting out the classic equations for being able to resolve two point objects. I've never been convinced that those actually apply to this situation,... trying to resolve a bullet hole in the black of a target. Any limitation is due to other things.

    Anyways Konus and Celestron both have offerings at this point that will achieve what you want. I don't know exactly which models.

    If you're willing to spend a little money one of the better deals might be one of the first generation razor scopes from vortex. They were on closeout but might be gone at this point.
     

    rbird7282

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 6, 2012
    18,531
    Columbia
    I have a Pentax and while rarely mentioned, they may a very nice spotting scope for the money.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    dist1646

    Ultimate Member
    May 1, 2012
    8,758
    Eldersburg
    Kowa is a good scope and to clarify, shoot & see targets are no problem. There are conditions that make .22 cal holes hard to see at times, light, mirage, etc., on the targets used for highpower. In normal conditions, they can be seen.
    I see no one has mentioned Leica but, the AMU uses them so they have to be pretty good.
     

    ToolAA

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 17, 2016
    10,499
    God's Country
    on the same theme , where is the "sweet spot " at cost versus clarity ? i can't , won't buy a ziess spotting scope , where does the money spent equal value ?

    Bit of a shameless self promotion here, but I struggled with the exact question a few years ago. I purchased a cheap scope that looked cool from Bass Pro for $200 but it sucked and I took it back the next day. I upgraded to a Konus 20-60X100 which IIRC was about $340 at the time. I had used it for several NRA High Power Matches and I was barely able to see .223 caliber holes at 200 yds under very bright conditions. It worked fine for the matches since they mark your shots, but during my practice sessions it took a lot of effort to see the holes on the dark part of the target. On white targets in very bright conditions I was able to see .223 shots most of of the time. I did use this same scope at Peacemaker and I was able to see impacts on steel targets out to 800yds in bright conditions, so I felt that for $340 it was a decent low priced scope.

    I really wanted a $1800 scope but I just couldn't swing the cost at the time. I ended up building my own Wireless Range Cam. Here is a link to the build thread I posted on the forum. There is a screen shot in that post. At 200 yds .223 impacts were very clear even in shady or cloudy conditions. I even used it out to 600yds at Ft. Meade and it worked great. The first version I build cost about $150 in parts and about 20hrs of my time. It was modeled after the Bullseye Target cam which at the time were close to $500. They have a new model which is about $250. Here is the link to the 300 yard model. They also make one which can reach a mile. My system (or the bullseye) works great at the range, but it's really not suitable for matches. Eventually I ended up selling the Konus and upgrading to a pretty good Burris Signature HD Scope. Honestly the saying by once, cry once really is true.

    So TLDR, I if you want a spotting scope, I think the Konus 20-60x100 is a great value and will do what you want under the right conditions. If you just want to see the target and do not really need an actual spotting scope, the Bullseye Target Cam for $250 will save you a little money and will provide an even better view of the targets at 200yds.

    Good Luck.
     

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