Meds on the shelf for SHTF...read "rainy day"

Fishguy · Feb 7, 2015

AS it has been stated here, "aquarium use only" antibiotics are readily available and very inexpensive. You are not limited to just Erythromyacin or Ampicillin either. There are a large variety of fish antibiotics available online at reasonable prices, you just have to broaden your search beyond aquarium supply places.

mac1_131 · Feb 8, 2015

OK opened my shelter meds kit and found out who the prepper friendly doc was. His name is Dr Thomas Stoner

http://www.drmedkits.com/

not sure if he is still doing this or not, but the web site is active

here is a partial list of what I have in my bag and some of what he recommends (safe to use and stable for long term storage):
tramadol (pain med)
amoxicillin (antobiotic)
doxycycline (antobiotic)
cipro (antobiotic)
flagyl (antobiotic)
prednisone (allergic reactions)
phenergan (nausea)
he offers a few others I didn't buy from him

I supplement the above with over the counter basics (tylenol, asprin, naproxen, motrin, benadryl, imodium), potassium iodide tabs, vitamins I use (especially vitamin D), stuff I get from my Doc and have extra of, and end up with a pretty extensive SHTF/shelter med kit.

I suggest that if you go down this path, that you also have the discipline to see your Doc when you do have an issue and not self-medicate and dive into the bag.

During SHTF, that is a different story.

Mowog · Feb 8, 2015

Bactrum contains Sulfamethazole, which many are allergic to.

Tetracycline only stains teeth while they are developing , so try to avoid use on anyone under the age of 12 (by then most visible teeth are developed). Girls teeth tend to develop earlier than most boys- maybe use 14 for a boy to be safe.

Cipro and Metronidazole maken a great combo for stubborn stuff. Metronidazole has been labeled a potential carcinogen and also has an anabuse like effect if taken with alcohol. So I would limit its use to only when necessary.

If you haven't used a lot of antibiotics good old amoxicillin should be good.

Augmentin is amoxicillin with clavulanic acid which makes it more broad spectrum.

A "Z pack" is a great travel antibiotic. Sealed tablets in a blister pack- Zithromax is the proprietary name.

I'm joining this thread late, so I would add:

Benadryl (generic)
Aspirin
Naprosyn or Ibuprofen

Bob

t84a · Feb 8, 2015

So.... How illegal would it be for a doc to write a prescription for stuff like this say for a Canadian pharmacy so you're not using your insurance?

OLM-Medic · Feb 8, 2015

Mowog said:
Bactrum contains Sulfamethazole, which many are allergic to.

Tetracycline only stains teeth while they are developing , so try to avoid use on anyone under the age of 12 (by then most visible teeth are developed). Girls teeth tend to develop earlier than most boys- maybe use 14 for a boy to be safe.

Cipro and Metronidazole maken a great combo for stubborn stuff. Metronidazole has been labeled a potential carcinogen and also has an anabuse like effect if taken with alcohol. So I would limit its use to only when necessary.

If you haven't used a lot of antibiotics good old amoxicillin should be good.

Augmentin is amoxicillin with clavulanic acid which makes it more broad spectrum.

A "Z pack" is a great travel antibiotic. Sealed tablets in a blister pack- Zithromax is the proprietary name.

I'm joining this thread late, so I would add:

Benadryl (generic)
Aspirin
Naprosyn or Ibuprofen

Bob

That's not exactly how it works. Regardless if you have taken antibiotics a lot or not, bacteria in the environment are now often resistant to certain antibiotics. They pass on their resistant genes to their "offspring." It's not your body that's resistant, it's the bacteria themselves.

Many bacteria now produce beta-lactamase (such as penicillinase), enzymes that breaks open the beta-lactam ring of the antibiotics structure and essentially disables it. This is why you often see Amoxicillin/clavulanic acid (Augmentin) instead of regular Amoxicillin. The clavulanic acid is a beta-lactamase inhibitor, which helps keeps the amoxicillin from being deactivated by beta-lactamase.

rwbow1969 · Feb 8, 2015

Having someone tell me about meds with Brian Frosh as an avatar is creeping me out.....

OLM-Medic · Feb 8, 2015

rwbow1969 said:
Having someone tell me about meds with Brian Frosh as an avatar is creeping me out.....

That's why I picked it.

govwontletmebuycoolguns · Feb 8, 2015

I've had fish tanks for over 15 years, and have stocked a variety of fish meds during that period (for the fish, not for me).

You used to be able to go to just about any pet shop that sold aquarium supplies, and buy just about anything in blister packs. In recent years, the variety of supplies available has diminished significantly, and the stuff they do have is typically in a liquid form.

I had piraña for the longest time, and every so often you'd get a bad batch of feeders, necessitating treatment. I eventually got rid of them because it kept getting more and more difficult to source the proper compounds to provide treatment (heck....you couldn't even find copper salts anymore for flukes. The "new" stuff would kill "most" of them, but that just kicks the can down the road).

I really don't condone self medicating (unless its a fine bottle of scotch), but I guess if you are concerned about shtf, you should stock up from a reputable supplier now before that faucet gets shut off too.

The Democrats next battle cry: "its for the fishies".

BlackBart · Feb 8, 2015

Is table salt better than nothing for radiation???

govwontletmebuycoolguns · Feb 8, 2015

BlackBart said:
Is table salt better than nothing for radiation???

Nope...you'll just die of cancer a little thirstier.

The point of the potassium iodide is to saturate your thyroid gland with "safe" iodine so that it cannot bioaccumulate the radioactive variety before it passes out of the body. Its a hedge against long-term risk of thyroid cancer. Obviously, with a high enough radiation dose, it really won't help you.

amoebicmagician · Feb 8, 2015

teratos said:
Good question. Procurement is the biggest problem for most folks. Sometimes you can find a prepper friendly doctor. May be tough, but doesn't hurt to ask. Veterinary supply shops should be a good source.

I keep a few antibiotics around for SHTF. You need a few to over the majority of scenarios you could encounter. You also need some knowledge on what to treat. In normal times people love going to the doctor for "sinus infections" and "bronchitis". They get antibiotics and often complain they aren't strong enough and didn't work. They don't work because 90-98% of these infections are viral. Studies show that even the bacterial sinus infections get better with no antibiotics. You won't want to waste your precious resources on these. If people have just a cough, productive of ugly stuff with a fever it may be pneumonia. I imagine if SHTF this will become much more common. That is worth treating. Skin infections are likely to be the most common thing encountered.

Doxycycline - This is a good all-around antibiotic. Great for SHTF because it treats respiratory infections, skin infections (including most strains of MRSA) and tick borne diseases like Lyme. Bad because unlike many antibiotics, it actually has a shelf life. I wouldn't use this more than 3 years beyond factory expiration date. Probably 5 years beyond expiration noted on the bottle. One twice a day for 10 days. Even though the recommendations for Lyme say treat for 21 days, 10 is sufficient.

Ciprofloxacin/levofloxacin/moxifloxacin - cousins, but levofloxacin and moxifloxacin cover more. Good for pneumonia, urinary tract infections, intra-abdominal infections (diverticulitis), bacterial diarrhea, and also treat anthrax, if that is an issue.

Bactrim (TMP/SMZ) - Another good "workhorse". If I could pick only one, this would be it. Treats skin infections (including most strains of MRSA), respiratory infections like pneumonia, intra-abdominal infections, urinary tract infections.

Metronidazole -Use in combination with Bactrim or any of the -floxacin antibiotics for penetrating abdominal wounds. Use by itself for parasitic infections like amebic dysentery.

Tamiflu - May be useful. I have it because I can, but probably the least important thing. If you have a group and the flu hits, quarantine those people who have it. If you have very young or very old folks, they may be worth treating. If I were in a SHTF scenario and I got the flu, I wouldn't take it for myself.

Shelf life on everything but doxycycline should be decades.

THANK YOU for this information.

I thought a couple times about making a thread like this, but did not because I was not sure if it was frowned upon legally to do as is hypothesized here.

My understanding was that since viral infections are 100% immune to any kind of antibiotics derived from fungal or synthetic means, you are better off not seeking or taking such drugs for an infection if you're not sure it's bacterial, and even then if the rewards do not outweigh the cost or risk.

I just wanted something that would treat pneumonia, bad strep, and other serious bacterial infections, even bubonic plague if needed.

Anyways, dependent on whether the organism is gram negative or gram positive some antibiotics may have little to no effect, so knowledge is your friend, but so is a jack of all trades antibiotic.

My dog contracted lyme's disease a few years ago, and the vet ended up giving me a crapload of the stuff. As in several filled pharmacy bottles used to dispense into smaller containers.

I knew that it was one with a shelf life, but I thought the expiration was MUCH more conservative than what you just told me, doc.

I have a good doctor right now, and in discussing hypotheticals with her she told me that if antibiotics had a track record of taking a while to resolve infections in me she would have no choice but to prescribe an EXTRA LONG COURSE of antibiotics to treat any infections I might think I have.

Anyways, luckily I'm on the Bactrim bandwagon, but I could always procure more. Or is it possible to procure the individual drugs that make up bactrim individually from a veterinary supply shop?

What are your thoughts on Azithromyecin? Due to it's extremely long half life I am seeing it prescribed a lot. Seems like a good bang for the buck unless it falls short in some area

amoebicmagician · Feb 8, 2015

govwontletmebuycoolguns said:
Nope...you'll just die of cancer a little thirstier.

The point of the potassium iodide is to saturate your thyroid gland with "safe" iodine so that it cannot bioaccumulate the radioactive variety before it passes out of the body. Its a hedge against long-term risk of thyroid cancer. Obviously, with a high enough radiation dose, it really won't help you.

THANK YOU, I keep seeing this idea that you can just eat table salt to stave off radioactive accumulations in the thyroid.

Who started this DANGEROUS rumor?

But yes, your thyroid will seek out and hold onto any iodine it can get it's hands on, and unfortunately iodine isotopes have a very long half life as far as decay goes. The idea is to pack your thyroid to the gills with non-active iodine, and keep it bio-available while you are exposed to radioactive fallout.

govwontletmebuycoolguns · Feb 8, 2015

amoebicmagician said:
THANK YOU for this information.

I thought a couple times about making a thread like this, but did not because I was not sure if it was frowned upon legally to do as is hypothesized here.

My understanding was that since viral infections are 100% immune to any kind of antibiotics derived from fungal or synthetic means, you are better off not seeking or taking such drugs for an infection if you're not sure it's bacterial, and even then if the rewards do not outweigh the cost or risk.

I just wanted something that would treat pneumonia, bad strep, and other serious bacterial infections, even bubonic plague if needed.

Anyways, dependent on whether the organism is gram negative or gram positive some antibiotics may have little to no effect, so knowledge is your friend, but so is a jack of all trades antibiotic.

My dog contracted lyme's disease a few years ago, and the vet ended up giving me a crapload of the stuff. As in several filled pharmacy bottles used to dispense into smaller containers.

I knew that it was one with a shelf life, but I thought the expiration was MUCH more conservative than what you just told me, doc.

I have a good doctor right now, and in discussing hypotheticals with her she told me that if antibiotics had a track record of taking a while to resolve infections in me she would have no choice but to prescribe an EXTRA LONG COURSE of antibiotics to treat any infections I might think I have.

Anyways, luckily I'm on the Bactrim bandwagon, but I could always procure more. Or is it possible to procure the individual drugs that make up bactrim individually from a veterinary supply shop?

What are your thoughts on Azithromyecin? Due to it's extremely long half life I am seeing it prescribed a lot. Seems like a good bang for the buck unless it falls short in some area

The doxy for your dog does degrade to a toxic form after expiration....can potentially damage your kidneys.

Don't really have anything bad to say about the Z pak.....seems to be what the doc gives me on the very rare occasion I go to the doc. Newer studies show it may have damaging effects on the heart, but if you think you're dying of something else I guess that really doesn't matter.

IANADOC, lol

BlackBart · Feb 8, 2015

govwontletmebuycoolguns said:
Nope...you'll just die of cancer a little thirstier.

The point of the potassium iodide is to saturate your thyroid gland with "safe" iodine so that it cannot bioaccumulate the radioactive variety before it passes out of the body. Its a hedge against long-term risk of thyroid cancer. Obviously, with a high enough radiation dose, it really won't help you.

Can it be had OTC or script only?

amoebicmagician · Feb 8, 2015

oh, and don't overlook the prednisone.

If you're out in the middle of nowhere or can't seek professional help, allergic reactions can be SERIOUS

amoebicmagician · Feb 8, 2015

BlackBart said:
Can it be had OTC or script only?

potassium iodide is not a controlled substance, and can be bought anywhere for relatively cheap, legally OTC or over the internet

govwontletmebuycoolguns · Feb 8, 2015

BlackBart said:
Can it be had OTC or script only?

Potassium Iodide can be obtained OTC. If you live near a nuclear facility, they often give it out free once a year (i.e. Peach Bottom). I still order extra from IOSAT.

While it may offer some thyroid protection from radioactive iodine, it does not address other radioactive isotopes (such as cesium 137) that are present in fallout or generated in nuclear accidents, which can be just as detrimental to your health.

amoebicmagician · Feb 8, 2015

govwontletmebuycoolguns said:
Potassium Iodide can be obtained OTC. If you live near a nuclear facility, they often give it out free once a year (i.e. Peach Bottom). I still order extra from IOSAT.

While it may offer some thyroid protection from radioactive iodine, it does not address other radioactive isotopes (such as cesium 137) that are present in fallout or generated in nuclear accidents, which can be just as detrimental to your health.

true, but your body is unlikely to squirrel away cesium or strontium like it does with iodine, so as long as you do not linger in the contaminated area you will most likely be okay as long as it is not really 'hot'

The iodine isotopes are dangerous specifically because they stick with you, constantly irradiating you from the inside until your body starts to literally fall apart.

During one of the demon core incidents, an irradiated scientist kept a journal until his death from acute radiation sickness- it is the worst way to die imaginable. Unimaginably painful and lingering.

govwontletmebuycoolguns · Feb 8, 2015

amoebicmagician said:
true, but your body is unlikely to squirrel away cesium or strontium like it does with iodine, so as long as you do not linger in the contaminated area you will most likely be okay as long as it is not really 'hot'

The iodine isotopes are dangerous specifically because they stick with you, constantly irradiating you from the inside until your body starts to literally fall apart.

During one of the demon core incidents, an irradiated scientist kept a journal until his death from acute radiation sickness- it is the worst way to die imaginable. Unimaginably painful and lingering.

I would prefer not to get irradiated in the first place.

PS: He died of acute poisoning from neutron radiation exposure.

BlackBart · Feb 8, 2015

govwontletmebuycoolguns said:
Potassium Iodide can be obtained OTC. If you live near a nuclear facility, they often give it out free once a year (i.e. Peach Bottom). I still order extra from IOSAT.

While it may offer some thyroid protection from radioactive iodine, it does not address other radioactive isotopes (such as cesium 137) that are present in fallout or generated in nuclear accidents, which can be just as detrimental to your health.

I'm probably about 10 or 12 miles WSW of 3 mile island. :fingerscrossed:

Meds on the shelf for SHTF...read "rainy day"

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