SBR MD Compliant Barrel length

outobie · Mar 11, 2021

Hi all:

I'd like to get your feedback on something.

I've been planning to convert my BRN180S 300 blackout pistol to an SBR.

I went to my LGS to have them help me with the NFA paperwork and they told me that my planned SBR configuration wouldn't be legal in MD.

According to them the 29" minimum length requirement is measured with the butstock fully collapsed and the rifle in its smallest configuration.

By that standard I've calculated that the shortest barrel I could legally SBR in MD would be 13.5".

I've read the discussions on this forum which seem to indicate that 11.5" barrels are legal and the measurements are taken with the stock fully extended rather than collapsed.

does anyone have any concrete data on how the stocks are measured? does anyone have any written textual evidence of what the standard is?

thanks

teratos · Mar 11, 2021

outobie said:
Hi all:

I'd like to get your feedback on something.

I've been planning to convert my BRN180S 300 blackout pistol to an SBR.

I went to my LGS to have them help me with the NFA paperwork and they told me that my planned SBR configuration wouldn't be legal in MD.

According to them the 29" minimum length requirement is measured with the butstock fully collapsed and the rifle in its smallest configuration.

By that standard I've calculated that the shortest barrel I could legally SBR in MD would be 13.5".

I've read the discussions on this forum which seem to indicate that 11.5" barrels are legal and the measurements are taken with the stock fully extended rather than collapsed.

does anyone have any concrete data on how the stocks are measured? does anyone have any written textual evidence of what the standard is?

thanks

Measure with the buttstock fully EXTENDED. The BRN-180 in the 10.5" configuration works with a lot of stocks.

hogarth · Mar 11, 2021

teratos said:
Measure with the buttstock fully EXTENDED. The BRN-180 in the 10.5" configuration works with a lot of stocks.

^This.

You measure fully extended. I have a side-folding SBR that if I measured it "collapsed" (folded) would be like 19 inches overall (with a 10.5 in barrel). Yet it is MD legal when the stock is extended (30 inches).

Your dealer doesn't know what he's talking about. He might be confusing SBR rules with AR pistol rules or something.

SkiPatrolDude · Mar 11, 2021

I have an SBR with a 10.3in barrel. With a standard carbine buffer tube and the B5 Systems Bravo stock, it is just barely over 29. Or you can always go the VlTOR A5 stock route and you are well in the clear. With 10.5, though, you should be good with most stock configurations.

The LGS was wrong about how you measure OAL for an SBR.

If I had a nickel for every time I got bad advice from a respected LGS...

Pinecone · Mar 11, 2021

BATFE states OAL is measured with buttstock FULLY EXTENDED.

Your gun shop is wrong.

outobie · Mar 11, 2021

does anyone have a link to the relevant text? I'd like to send to my gun shop

outrider58 · Mar 11, 2021

outobie said:
does anyone have a link to the relevant text? I'd like to send to my gun shop

Here:
https://www.nationalguntrusts.com/b...h-of-your-sbr-for-your-atf-form-1-application

...and here...
https://www.rainierarms.com/blog/atf-form-1-creating-or-manufacturing-your-own-sbr-faq/

What Info is needed for filling out a Form 1 to create a SBR?

Original Manufacturer (as printed on the firearm)
Type of Firearm (Short Barreled Rifle)
Caliber (base number only, i.e. .300, 308, .223, etc)
Model (as priced on the firearm from original manufacturer)
Length of barrel (as measured from the bolt face to muzzle tip)
Length overall (measure with stock fully extended and no removable muzzle device installed to the muzzle tip)
Serial number (as priced on the firearm from original manufacturer)
State why you intend to make a firearm (“for all lawful purposes”)

Or you can go on the ATFE's site and at the top you'll see "Ask The Experts" Click on that and ask your questions. It may take a day or two to get your answers.

River02 · Mar 11, 2021

SkiPatrolDude said:
I have an SBR with a 10.3in barrel. With a standard carbine buffer tube and the B5 Systems Bravo stock, it is just barely over 29. Or you can always go the VlTOR A5 stock route and you are well in the clear. With 10.5, though, you should be good with most stock configurations.

SPDude-- Is that your DD Mk18 with the 10.3 and the B5? Did you change the buffer tube when you SBRd it? I ask because I have a DD Mk18 pistol and I'm uncertain the B5 gets me to 29. Measured stock extended to the tip of the barrel (muzzle)--not the flash suppressor... correct?

teratos · Mar 11, 2021

River02 said:
SPDude-- Is that your DD Mk18 with the 10.3 and the B5? Did you change the buffer tube when you SBRd it? I ask because I have a DD Mk18 pistol and I'm uncertain the B5 gets me to 29. Measured stock extended to the tip of the barrel (muzzle)--not the flash suppressor... correct?

The B5 should. I get there with a 10.5" barrel, carbine buffer tube and Magpul CTR stock.

outrider58 · Mar 11, 2021

River02 said:
SPDude-- Is that your DD Mk18 with the 10.3 and the B5? Did you change the buffer tube when you SBRd it? I ask because I have a DD Mk18 pistol and I'm uncertain the B5 gets me to 29. Measured stock extended to the tip of the barrel (muzzle)--not the flash suppressor... correct?

Correct on the last part. As long as the flash suppressor is removable, measure from 'permanent' end of muzzle to end of fully extended stock.

River02 · Mar 11, 2021

teratos said:
The B5 should. I get there with a 10.5" barrel, carbine buffer tube and Magpul CTR stock.

Thanks Doc--

outrider58 said:
Correct on the last part. As long as the flash suppressor is removable, measure from 'permanent' end of muzzle to end of fully extended stock.

Thanks Einstein--

Tungsten · Mar 11, 2021

I thought there was recently some legal issues with an extendable buttstock vs a folding one. ie you measure fully extended, but a folding one must be measured in the folded state.

Was that a bill that was never passed?

outrider58 · Mar 11, 2021

Tungsten said:
I thought there was recently some legal issues with an extendable buttstock vs a folding one. ie you measure fully extended, but a folding one must be measured in the folded state.

Was that a bill that was never passed?

I believe that had to do with measuring an AR pistol for OAL. Trying to either stay over or under 29".
Over, and you can add a VFG. Under and no VFG. If your pistol has a folder, you measure it folded. If it has a normal buffer tube, you measure to the end of the tube to the muzzle.
Is that what you are thinking of?

Tungsten · Mar 11, 2021

outrider58 said:
I believe that had to do with measuring an AR pistol for OAL. Trying to either stay over or under 29".
Over, and you can add a VFG. Under and no VFG. If your pistol has a folder, you measure it folded. If it has a normal buffer tube, you measure to the end of the tube to the muzzle.
Is that what you are thinking of?

That sounds right. The memory is murky these days.

outrider58 · Mar 12, 2021

Tungsten said:
That sounds right. The memory is murky these days.

I'm with ya brother...

atblis · Mar 12, 2021

Has Maryland in any official form ever said that the measurement has to be done with the muzzle device removed? or are we assuming that from the Federal stuff?

holesonpaper · Mar 12, 2021

atblis said:
Has Maryland in any official form ever said that the measurement has to be done with the muzzle device removed? or are we assuming that from the Federal stuff?

Thats Federal (batfe) law. If the muzzle device is pinned and welded, only then is it included in the OAL measurement.

atblis · Mar 12, 2021

Yeah I know it's the federal law I'm just curious if anybody ever put the question to the Maryland State Police or whoever. Typically you can't remove a muzzle device without a vise and some tools.

Pinecone · Mar 12, 2021

outrider58 said:
Or you can go on the ATFE's site and at the top you'll see "Ask The Experts" Click on that and ask your questions. It may take a day or two to get your answers.

Somewhere on their site is a document stating this, with drawings.

Here is a BATFE letter:

Biggfoot44 · Mar 12, 2021

Here's the sequence :

ATF standards are clear

As part of ATF approvals , they ensure the items also meet respective State Laws

ATF's source for interpretation of State Law is MSP LD

MSP LD is not shy about asserting the maximum possible restrictive interpretation of State Law to the ATF

MSP LD has never objected to ATF about measurement of SBR OAL since it became an issue in 2013 .

SBR MD Compliant Barrel length

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