School me on Civil War Rifles

j8064 · Mar 17, 2018

Melnic said:
Picked up an 1863. Most of the Springfields were $3K or more. There were plenty of contract muskets in the same condition as what I got which were $1300-$1600. Bore was pretty good, I rejected buying one that was a sewer pipe and another that looked like someone removed the rifling. 2 of them were sanded down stocks and someone polished the barrels (the trigger guards were not polished). This one was not shiny and bright but seemed like it was unmolested. The other stuff at the guy's table looked unmolested as well. Lock seemed good and the stock was in decent condition.

Now I need to source out a 58 cal jag tip for my range rod and some minie balls to give it a short range trip.

Melnic, that's a BOOTIFUL Springfield!

You can order a 58 cal jag tip from Track of the Wolf easy enough. They have assy's that should fit your range rod depending on what threads you need.
I'm using a brass jag for the rod tip to load my Springfield vs. the original steel rod. It screws on to a 7/16; 10-32 Delrin rod and works great.
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/211/1/JS-58-8-10

And I'll be more than happy to send you some .575 Minie balls to try. I already have some cast using a Lee mold with very soft lead. They'll be a little sticky tho. I'm lubing them with a 50/50 mixture of beeswax and Crisco. I made a "Minie Ball Lube Scraper" to get the excess lube off so the boolits will load easier. We Hooligans will see how that works tomorrow morning.

Send me a PM with your shipping address and a handful of 58 Cal Minie Balls will be on their way to you. Your penance will be -> Post Pics of you shooting them!

Melnic · Mar 17, 2018

Thanks!

Your awesome!
PM sent with my address.

Mike OTDP · Mar 17, 2018

Check the bore diameter. The gouge starting place the N-SSA has found works best is a Minie .001 below bore diameter, in front of 45 grains of 3F powder.

Melnic · Mar 17, 2018

How do I check bore diameter?
Calipers?
Land to land or groove to groove?

I’m not great at bore pics but here is one.

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j8064 · Mar 17, 2018

The bore looks very nice. You could slug the bore with a soft lead ball and measure the lands and grooves. IMHO you'd need to drive an oversized soft lead ball down the barrel from the muzzle - then pull the ball and measure. But why? Remember, Minie balls were designed so that their skirt expands to engage the rifling when fired.

Your rifle's bore is probably .577 to maybe .580+. The diameter of the Minie ball and powder charge you shoot will help you figure out what gives you the best accuracy. Lubed Minie balls need to be slightly undersized so they can be easily rammed down the barrel and will expand when fired.

Keep in mind, these rifles were not designed to shoot metallic cartridges. The Minie balls they fire are quite different than what we reload and shoot now. They were the forerunners of today's technology.

Patience, Grasshopper. I'll send you a care package of Minie's to try.

:thumbsup:

j8064 · Mar 24, 2018

Update

Now that the winter storms seem to have stopped I got you covered, Melnic. This care package is ready to go out on Monday. :thumbsup:

The minie's are pre-lubed and pretty sticky. But they should load fine for you.

In true Hooligan style, we expect to see some pics of you shooting them real soon.

Enjoy!

Threeband · Mar 24, 2018

I'll bet that box is heavy.

j8064 · Mar 24, 2018

Threeband said:
I'll bet that box is heavy.

Ya think?

j8064 · Mar 24, 2018

Threeband said:
I'll bet that box is heavy.

Not meaning to hijack Melnic's thread ->

4570 and I made a quick road trip to Back Creek Gun Shop in Winchester, VA. http://www.blackpowderva.com/ What an adventure between the snow storms! But it was all good. Especially when we met Charlotte and her dog Sadie who helped us get what we were looking for.

We picked up some hotter RWS and Schuetzen musket caps and BP to shoot in our guns along with other gear. Well worth the trip!

:thumbsup:

Threeband · Mar 24, 2018

Yup. That is the place to go.

You're about set to try skirmishing...

Melnic · Mar 24, 2018

Thx for the shipment .

I have been doing more digging on Whitney Arms and this rifle. I have 2 books so far that references Whitney Blued rifles but they have some different info in them. I ordered one book with additional info in it that I want to look at before I post anything.

The bluing really preserved the metal. It’s a shame the government was so wrong on bluing prior to the civil war.

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j8064 · Mar 24, 2018

Threeband said:
Yup. That is the place to go.

You're about set to try skirmishing...

Maybe so. We tried to make a stop at Winchester Sutlers which turned out to be a bust. Quite an adventure trying to find the address on ice covered back roads. Turned out it's mail order only...

Bootiful area tho!

Melnic said:
Thx for the shipment .

I have been doing more digging on Whitney Arms and this rifle. I have 2 books so far that references Whitney Blued rifles but they have some different info in them. I ordered one book with additional info in it that I want to look at before I post anything.

The bluing really preserved the metal. It’s a shame the government was so wrong on bluing prior to the civil war.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Keep digging! Lots of learning awaits you!

:thumbsup:

Threeband · Mar 24, 2018

Melnic said:
...

The bluing really preserved the metal. It’s a shame the government was so wrong on bluing prior to the civil war.

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I heard about one Colonel of Volunteers whose regiment was issued Enfields. Not liking the bluing, he ordered his men to polish them "National Armory Bright."

Not only did it keep his men busy, it allowed the enemy to see the sunlight glinting off their muskets five miles away.

I'll bet they just loved their Colonel...

IronEye · Mar 25, 2018

Armory Bright Enfield

When I was reenacting many years ago we spend a few hours polishing the bluing off of our reproduction Enfields. I don't know if it is still the case today but researchers were convinced - or at least convinced us - that this was common practice. Since we didn't want look like Farbs we polished away. It was sure hard to take the first step. Our Enfields gleamed.

Threeband · Mar 25, 2018

That's funny. I heard about that one idiot Colonel. Is it possible that Idiot Officers were common ?

I'll leave it to those with more experience of Military Intelligence whether or not Idiocy could possibly be widespread among senior officers.

Interesting that this contract musket was blued. Probably by '63 the Army had shed some stupidity and gotten a little sense on the matter. It would make sense that the Enfield polishing was done early in the war, before many officers acquired practical experience.

Found this discussion of Bright muskets. It wanders off topic, but gets back on track again.

https://civilwartalk.com/threads/springfield-61-63-finish.9961/

IronEye · Mar 25, 2018

Here's a nice bunch of pictures on exactly what one company can do in regards to "De-Farbing" a Repro Enfield. Goes way beyond just removing the bluing from the barrel.

http://www.lodgewood.com/P1853-Enfield_c_204.html

Melnic · Mar 25, 2018

IronEye said:
Here's a nice bunch of pictures on exactly what one company can do in regards to "De-Farbing" a Repro Enfield. Goes way beyond just removing the bluing from the barrel.

http://www.lodgewood.com/P1853-Enfield_c_204.html

I don’t know if the reinactors think this ok but now it scares me to look to buy an enfield knowing someone out there Mitchel Mausers the Enfields. If they want to reinact, sure go polish out the bluing but fake proof marks is in my book pushing the line to allow the reproduction to be peddled off as authentic. It is one thing to restore a gun but not to fake like you have he real thing. Hopefully there is an easy way to spot the fake. More research for me before I look at enfields.

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IronEye · Mar 25, 2018

In complete agreement there. I think (but don't know) that you should be able to see where they removed the Armi San Marco stamp on the barrel. That area should seem dished out.

It not like somebody would ever put a Waffenampt on a unsafe to fire $100 8mm converted Carcano and claim it was a rare last ditch rifle worth $800. There were reports of a dealer up in Pittsburgh years ago that had a set of German stamps and everything he touched grew Waffenampt stamping.

Threeband · Mar 25, 2018

Those muskets are way too farby still.

Anyone can spot those metric screws a kilometer away!

They need to re-tap the screw holes and replace the screws with English threads. Then they need to rebore the barrels with progressive depth gain twist rifling

I would not destroy the value of my Parker Hale Enfield by removing the correct, authentic 1986 markings.

bmkoenig · Mar 25, 2018

Threeband said:
Interesting that this contract musket was blued. Probably by '63 the Army had shed some stupidity and gotten a little sense on the matter. It would make sense that the Enfield polishing was done early in the war, before many officers acquired practical experience.

This is a postwar manufactured rifle-musket assembled using surplus Springfield parts by the Whitney arms company.

http://www.horsesoldier.com/products/firearms/longarms/24708

School me on Civil War Rifles

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