Lever action geek time

echo6mike · Feb 3, 2018

So, I’ve been educating myself on lever action rifles. It seems there are two main types of internal actions. Most common looks to be the toggle link, like in a Winchester 1873 or lots of others, https://youtu.be/YcZNYAAy_Gc, with a falling block, or the tilting block, as in a model 92, https://youtu.be/of2uCOQWYLk

As far as I can tell, in modern guns and for regular use (i.e., not combat), either one is perfectly fine. From experience, though, what can anyone tell me about these?

And this isn’t even getting into loading gates (Side? Bottom? Removable tube?) ejection angles, etc.

But please, open the floor for discussion including experience and just plain opinionating!

SF

Echo6mike, going mobile...

Alan3413 · Feb 3, 2018

I'm always impressed by the ingenuity of mechanical actions. No SoCs, no FPGAs, just carefully shaped pieces of metal that operate in synchrony to accomplish a complex task.

Learning everything I can about the 92s.

JoeRinMD · Feb 3, 2018

The toggle-link guns were superseded by stronger designs when smokeless powder became more commonplace. The later designs could handle much higher pressures than the toggle-link guns. I wouldn't want to shoot heavy loads of any caliber in the earlier designs. They're much more suitable to cowboy-action loads which simulate blackpowder pressures.

Joe

iH8DemLibz · Feb 3, 2018

Henry's need side loading gates.

fidelity · Feb 3, 2018

iH8DemLibz said:
Henry's need side loading gates.

They've also taken a page from Browning's book these last few years and come out with some box magazine levers too (in 223/556 and larger spitzer rounds). Haven't really researched these rifles, even if the box magazine has practical utility, as I like the aesthetics of the tube magazine under the barrel.

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molonlabe · Feb 3, 2018

iH8DemLibz said:
Henry's need side loading gates.

They are basically hunting rifles not SD or gunfighting. Although if you can get the job done in 5 to 10 rounds but I would not bet my life on it.

BossmanPJ · Feb 3, 2018

iH8DemLibz said:
Henry's need side loading gates.

They do. I love my Henry’s but hate loading them. Pulling that big ass tube out and loading is just weird after having Winchester’s for so long first. But still, I love them.

OP,

Levers are extremely addictive. Beware.

Melnic · Feb 3, 2018

Henry's are tube fed for historical reasons I recall.
I have 2 and don't mind the tube. That being said, I'd prefer a loading gate in warm weather and tube in cold weather.

iH8DemLibz · Feb 3, 2018

Melnic said:
Henry's are tube fed for historical reasons I recall.
I have 2 and don't mind the tube. That being said, I'd prefer a loading gate in warm weather and tube in cold weather.

You are correct.

Henry went back in history.

And borrowed the idea from the Marlin Model 60.

Huckleberry · Feb 3, 2018

If your Henry had a side loading gate then it wouldn’t be a Henry, it would be Winchester 66 Yellowboy.

Know your history and respect your heritage.

Huckleberry · Feb 3, 2018

iH8DemLibz said:
You are correct.

Henry went back in history.

And borrowed the idea from the Marlin Model 60.

WTF? You huffing your Hoppes #9?

3paul10 · Feb 3, 2018

I thought Henry's load the way they do, because of patent rights...that's what I thought I heard anyways....

iH8DemLibz · Feb 3, 2018

We're just having fun with the thread.

I think lever action rifles look better and function better with side loading gates.

DAVIDMAGNUM · Feb 3, 2018

Henry or Henry ?

The original Henry Rifle manufactured in Oliver Winchester's factory did not have a side loading gate because it did not exist yet. Nelson King devised the loading gate improvement for the Henry Rifle. The side loading gate allowed for the use of a wooden forearm. As someone that shoots black powder in an 1873 Winchester I know that the "Holy Black" heats up a barrel more than that nitro smokeless stuff some people like. :innocent0

Other improvements allowed by the side loading gate were a totally enclosed magazine tube and internal follower.
Fast forward to the present and it is easy to confuse the new company , Henry Repeating Arms with the company mentioned above. Henry Repeating Arms does not use the original top loading , open magazine on their Big Boy Rifles like the rifle manufactured in 1860.(they do on the "New Original Henry") They are using as others have said , a system very much like a Marlin semi-auto 22LR tube magazine.

BIG NOTE ON SAFETY !!
The original Henry Rifle utilized a rim-fire cartridge. Whether made in the USA, Japan or Italy the new Henry Rifle replicas utilize center fire cartridges.
Dropping loaded rounds in a vertical magazine or letting the follower "snap" down onto a partially loaded magazine can set the cartridges off. I personally saw this happen , it is not urban legend.
The gentleman that was loading the rifle survived. He was taken to the hospital to receive stitches and have brass and steel fragments removed.

Biggfoot44 · Feb 3, 2018

And then the "Modern " lever actions, usually with rotating bolt . Savage 99 , Winchester M88 , Sako ( somthing ) , Browning BLR , Ruger 96 .

Straightbolt · Feb 3, 2018

Sako Finnwolf .308
Box magazine , Original Sako scope rings and a VXIII 3.5x10 Leupold scope
Super accurate and shoots better than me.

jimbobborg · Feb 4, 2018

I have lever guns for a specific application, SASS. When I started SASS, I had a Winchester 94 in 45 Colt. It worked, but cycling was slow and I lost too much precious brass. I picked up an Uberti 1860 in 44-40. In stock configuration, it's slow cycling. However, the toggle action lends itself to short stroke kits, which enables faster cycling. The fast rifle shooting on this video is being done with toggle action lever guns.

echo6mike · Feb 4, 2018

jimbobborg said:
I have lever guns for a specific application, SASS. When I started SASS, I had a Winchester 94 in 45 Colt. It worked, but cycling was slow and I lost too much precious brass. I picked up an Uberti 1860 in 44-40. In stock configuration, it's slow cycling. However, the toggle action lends itself to short stroke kits, which enables faster cycling. The fast rifle shooting on this video is being done with toggle action lever guns.

That *is* some fast shooting - looks like fun!

How about smoothing out different actions, I’m going to guess there’s some “tribal knowledge” out there about that.

And the new Marlins vs the old ones, things like that I’m interested in learning too...

Echo6mike, going mobile...

buellsfurn · Feb 4, 2018

That's looks fun thank you jimbobborg

BossmanPJ · Feb 4, 2018

echo6mike said:
That *is* some fast shooting - looks like fun!

How about smoothing out different actions, I’m going to guess there’s some “tribal knowledge” out there about that.

And the new Marlins vs the old ones, things like that I’m interested in learning too...

Echo6mike, going mobile...

The action jobs on the CAS rifles include smoothing parts internally but really get better with a short stroke kit. This makes the lever travel a shorter distance to open and shut the action. Really helps for speed.

One day I will learn to lever a rifle like that. Going to take a ton of practice.

Most of the time the CAS guys stick with 4 rifles. The original Henry, the 1866 and 1873 Winchester’s, and the Marlins. The first 3 are very simple to short stroke and slick up. I do not know the process for the Marlins. People tend to use the 1873 the most I believe. Internally the 66 and 73 are the same but the 73 has a safely feature that does not allow the rifle to fire until the lever is all the way shut. The 66 will actually fire out of battery and blow the rifle apart if you are going too fast and pull the trigger too soon

Lever action geek time

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