If you were a museum curator ...

Machodoc · Jun 24, 2015

I'd been thinking about creating this thread for awhile, and then a couple of comments in another thread made me decide that enough people might find it interesting to go ahead with it.

If you were a museum curator--someone who stood a chance of submitting a gun that was less than 50 years old to BATFE for consideration as a curio--what gun would you submit? What would be your rationale for why you think it really qualifies as a curio? Let's see some serious thought about these, OK?

I think that we can take two avenues on this. One is a particular make and model that you believe you could justify any gun of that type as being a curio. The other avenue would be one specific gun that you own, which you feel has unique qualifying features (even though others identical to it might not).

I'm going to start by posting a photo of a gun that I think legitimately deserves to be included as a C&R, even though it's not yet 50 years old. I'll provide my rationale later, but first I'm curious to see who will correctly identify it.

BTW ... I've blocked out the rather large amount of signage that appears on the left side of all of these.

somd_mustangs · Jun 24, 2015

Not sure what your pistol is but it looks like a CZ75 and a Hi Power had a baby.

I'd like to see the Walther and especially Manurhin P4 / P-IV get classified C&R.
Limited, short production, the Manurhin particularly significant (225 made) as a police-only issue,
provided the last gasp of the P.38 lineage for all intents and purposes.

And a real, definitive classification of the post-war P-1 and P-38 (they aren't C&R unless > 50 yo despite people selling them as such).

It boggles my mind some of the stuff that did get signed off already.

DC-W · Jun 24, 2015

That's easy for me. Gen 1 Glock 17.

Without it, the modern handgun market wouldn't be like it currently is. The majority of the world's law enforcement agencies are using glocks or other polymer framed handguns today.

StantonCree · Jun 24, 2015

DC-W said:
That's easy for me. Gen 1 Glock 17.

Without it, the modern handgun market wouldn't be like it currently is. The majority of the world's law enforcement agencies are using glocks or other polymer framed handguns today.

I'm gonna have to piggy back and say that most of the wonder 9's are coming up and need to be C&R.

G1 G17
CZ75
S&W M59
Beretta92
Sig226
VP70

CasualObserver · Jun 24, 2015

No idea what you posted a picture of (some sort of FEG maybe?).

However, if I had my choice I'd submit the Croatian PHP MV-9 9x19 Pistol for C&R status.

somd_mustangs · Jun 24, 2015

CasualObserver said:
No idea what you posted a picture of (some sort of FEG maybe?).

However, if I had my choice I'd submit the Croatian PHP MV-9 9x19 Pistol for C&R status.

+1 on that - I would have listed that too but couldn't remember the model #

Machodoc · Jun 24, 2015

somd_mustangs said:
Not sure what your pistol is but it looks like a CZ75 and a Hi Power had a baby.

Not too far off! :lol:

Be sure to post your reasons why you think a particular firearm would qualify as a curio. That's a big part of the game here. What would you say to persuade the BATFE?

Threeband · Jun 24, 2015

I was going to say the same thing, but I would call it "that fugly Croatian thing they just can't sell." If they were C&R, they'd go quick. And I think it's legit as a curio-sity.

But the Glock 17 Gen 1 really is historically significant. But it's going to have to wait another 20 years.

Bob A · Jun 25, 2015

The Polish P83 thread makes an excellent case for the pistol.

There are some very interesting HK pistols which seem to have ported over rifle technology into the handgun arena: roller-block delay for the P9S, and gas-retarded blowback in the P7 series. They're too scarce on the ground and too expensive to convey much benefit as C&R, though. I don't suppose "But I like them" is sufficient reason to satisfy the OP.

dgapilot · Jun 25, 2015

Wichita Arms (Wichita Engineering and Supply) Classic and Elegante series.

Sample here
http://www.gunsinternational.com/gu...legante-pistol-rifle-set.cfm?gun_id=100566031

I used to work for them back in 1979 as a machinist. If I could afford one of these sets, that's what I would want.

Brychan · Jun 25, 2015

Colt Python

MacGuns · Jun 25, 2015

I would vote that the Sig P210 in its various forms should be granted C&R status. Granted several versions meet the 50 year rule, but I think they should all be open for C&R status.

It would be fine if the US current production 210 legend series are not included.

Uncle Duke · Jun 25, 2015

Brychan said:
Colt Python

Yep.

Add the Diamondback as well.

Jaybeez · Jun 25, 2015

i think we've done this thread before, when discussing the cz-82.

the army ordnance museum used to have a beautiful display of the pistols from the army handgun trials before they moved from aberdeen. pretty much everything on that display board would be pure win

Melnic · Jun 25, 2015

My museum would have a section on Browning Hi Power clones.
I would submit C&R apps for all those clones that came out (CZ, FEG, IMI etc)

Mike OTDP · Jun 25, 2015

ASP and Devel conversions of S&W Model 39s and 59s. Extremely innovative, also very expensive on the collector's market. Perfectly legitimate C&R guns.

fred333 · Jun 25, 2015

The only pistol I can think of that outta be completely C&R, but isn't (it depends on date of manufacture) is the Beretta 1951.

Alphabrew · Jun 25, 2015

AK-47/AR-15

Mark75H · Jun 25, 2015

Melnic said:
My museum would have a section on Browning Hi Power clones.
I would submit C&R apps for all those clones that came out (CZ, FEG, IMI etc)

Don't forget the "L" series "FN"s

toolness1 · Jun 25, 2015

Another vote here for the P83 due to the way it is made.

Bulgarian Makarovs for the same reason a Polish or Romanian Tokarev count as C&R

FEG PA-63 for the alloy frame

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If you were a museum curator ...

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