HB0004 Rifles and Shotguns - Secondary Transactions

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  • smkranz

    Certified Caveman
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 21, 2013
    4,350
    Carroll County
    This scares the crap out of me. My girlfriend and I have lived together for about 10 years but we are not married. I keep my guns locked but she knows where the keys are. What does this bill mean to me? What happens when she is home but I am not? I am an 03FFL but I don't think that means anything when I leave her at home.

    Your GF keeps the long guns you have gifted to her over the years, in the same safe along with your own guns. Seems OK to me, no?
     

    Melnic

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    15,278
    HoCo
    How much the FFLs charge and how difficult or easy they make it will tell us a lot about them. If they get crazy on fees or put in restrictions to make it painful I know I will remember that. Hopefully it won’t be like that and they will do what it takes to keep people legal and while not giving them losses in the process.
    The first time I hear anything like , sure $50 and you have to set an appointment and we only do those on fridays, I won’t ever go back there.

    I see that if the dealers reduce the pain on face to face sellers, that will bring Them foot traffic and we can slam it in the dems faces as people then turn and take that $ and buy more lowers

    I can just see a certain FFL that tried to sue MDS a few years back trying to charge $50


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    BW460

    Member
    Mar 8, 2012
    89
    Well, I prefer not to lose my right to own firearms, go to jail, and get my girlfriend arrested, simply because I went to work. This is way beyond BS. And, as I understand this, it only applies to long guns and doesn't affect my handguns at all. Very stupid.
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,673
    Also it says "involving a licensee", not between licensees. So it shouldn't need to be C&R to C&R. Could be C&R to non prohibited person or vice versa.

    I'd agree, but one of the sections only exempts C&R transfers between two holders of a C&R license and of a C&R firearm.

    They have this as definitions at the beginning though.

    “DEALER’S LICENSE” MEANS A FEDERAL FIREARMS LICENSE.

    “LICENSEE” MEANS A PERSON WHO HOLDS A DEALER’S LICENSE.

    The bill is literally defining a dealer's licenses as ANY FEDERAL FIREARMS LICENSE.

    Could be a maker of ammo. could be a gun smith. Could be a pawn shop or actual dealer. Could be a C&R holder.

    Now, FFL-03s are not permitted to run a NICS check, so they can't legally act to do transfers for others. But I am sure as crap reading this to mean an FFL-03 CAN buy a long gun from a private citizen or sell one of their long guns to a private citizen.

    They are just adding some extra cushion by saying FFL-03s can also sell C&R guns to each other (I assume even though they don't define firearm in this bill, elsewhere in COMAR a firearm does NOT include a regulated firearm. So they are not relaxing that by accident).

    Makes my head hurt. Until we have this cleared up, I am sure as hell only following the C&R to C&R piece (of a long gun).
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,673
    I'm just wondering how the state will ever know about any private transactions between family members.

    I mean if it ever was traced, if you could be in deep crap if there hadn't been the exemption.

    Gee, Joe Dude bought it from a gun store in April of 2022, but their cousin is claiming they gave it to them before HB4 went in to effect.

    I understand your meaning, but as to how...
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,673
    This scares the crap out of me. My girlfriend and I have lived together for about 10 years but we are not married. I keep my guns locked but she knows where the keys are. What does this bill mean to me? What happens when she is home but I am not? I am an 03FFL but I don't think that means anything when I leave her at home.

    Means nothing. Loans are not prohibited, so this does not straight up ban possession unless it was transferred through an FFL or it was your family member.

    Now if the regulated firearm loan bill passes...

    You are screwed (and further more, that bill makes NO exception for family members, so I would be to since my wife can access my safe).
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,673
    How much the FFLs charge and how difficult or easy they make it will tell us a lot about them. If they get crazy on fees or put in restrictions to make it painful I know I will remember that. Hopefully it won’t be like that and they will do what it takes to keep people legal and while not giving them losses in the process.
    The first time I hear anything like , sure $50 and you have to set an appointment and we only do those on fridays, I won’t ever go back there.

    I see that if the dealers reduce the pain on face to face sellers, that will bring Them foot traffic and we can slam it in the dems faces as people then turn and take that $ and buy more lowers

    I can just see a certain FFL that tried to sue MDS a few years back trying to charge $50


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    Agreed, but we aren't in DC where they have ONE licensed handgun dealer who absolutely bends over everyone in sight.

    Here FFLs have to compete for business. Even with this bill, they'll need to compete. If we are lucky if there is any ray of sunshine out of the bill is the extra business will help LGS stay afloat and might also allow them to reduce their costs a bit elsewhere because of the extra revenue stream (maybe some will knock a few bucks of their regulated firearm transfer fees).

    I'll absolutely remember the ones who suddenly have dick rules or jack up their prices. But most of them do out of state transfers now. I'd hope they don't charge any more for an in-state one (if not cut a few bucks break, because they have a bit less work to do, not dealing with possibly PO box stuff, having to lock it up, contact the buyer maybe, send their FFL to the seller, etc.)

    I wouldn't expect them to reduce their rate, but I sure as hell would remember them increasing it and would hold it against them.
     

    budman93

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 1, 2013
    5,267
    Frederick County
    I'd agree, but one of the sections only exempts C&R transfers between two holders of a C&R license and of a C&R firearm.

    They have this as definitions at the beginning though.

    “DEALER’S LICENSE” MEANS A FEDERAL FIREARMS LICENSE.

    “LICENSEE” MEANS A PERSON WHO HOLDS A DEALER’S LICENSE.

    The bill is literally defining a dealer's licenses as ANY FEDERAL FIREARMS LICENSE.

    Could be a maker of ammo. could be a gun smith. Could be a pawn shop or actual dealer. Could be a C&R holder.

    Now, FFL-03s are not permitted to run a NICS check, so they can't legally act to do transfers for others. But I am sure as crap reading this to mean an FFL-03 CAN buy a long gun from a private citizen or sell one of their long guns to a private citizen.

    They are just adding some extra cushion by saying FFL-03s can also sell C&R guns to each other (I assume even though they don't define firearm in this bill, elsewhere in COMAR a firearm does NOT include a regulated firearm. So they are not relaxing that by accident).

    Makes my head hurt. Until we have this cleared up, I am sure as hell only following the C&R to C&R piece (of a long gun).

    Yeah this is all stupid and poorly done but by their own definitions and language a transaction involving one C&R licensee is exempt.
     

    Mark75H

    MD Wear&Carry Instructor
    Industry Partner
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 25, 2011
    17,172
    Outside the Gates
    I'd agree, but one of the sections only exempts C&R transfers between two holders of a C&R license and of a C&R firearm.

    They have this as definitions at the beginning though.

    “DEALER’S LICENSE” MEANS A FEDERAL FIREARMS LICENSE.

    “LICENSEE” MEANS A PERSON WHO HOLDS A DEALER’S LICENSE.

    The bill is literally defining a dealer's licenses as ANY FEDERAL FIREARMS LICENSE.

    Could be a maker of ammo. could be a gun smith. Could be a pawn shop or actual dealer. Could be a C&R holder.

    Now, FFL-03s are not permitted to run a NICS check, so they can't legally act to do transfers for others. But I am sure as crap reading this to mean an FFL-03 CAN buy a long gun from a private citizen or sell one of their long guns to a private citizen.

    They are just adding some extra cushion by saying FFL-03s can also sell C&R guns to each other (I assume even though they don't define firearm in this bill, elsewhere in COMAR a firearm does NOT include a regulated firearm. So they are not relaxing that by accident).

    Makes my head hurt. Until we have this cleared up, I am sure as hell only following the C&R to C&R piece (of a long gun).

    Don't forget the COMAR regulation for this has not been written. Just like the HQL live fire stipulation, MSP can rewrite this anyway they wish as long as the secret committee approves it
     

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