Legal to carry

There is no statute that tells me having sex with my girlfriend is legal but there is a statute outlawing rape.

The statutes tell you what is illegal, not what is legal, you're way overthinking this but you do you, I'm out.

Stoveman said:

There is no statute that tells me having sex with my girlfriend is legal but there is a statute outlawing rape.

The statutes tell you what is illegal, not what is legal, you're way overthinking this but you do you, I'm out.

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You don't know Maryland law very well. Actually, the transportation statutes tell you what is legal. They tell you where you can transport. Everything else is illegal. Stop giving bad advice.

knastera said:

But when you are transporting, you are in the vehicle. If you leave the vehicle and you are not at an approved location, you are illegally transporting. Transporting means that your still have control of the firearms.

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So you say you are transporting when you are in the vehicle, but you are then transporting it when you are not in the vehicle.

There is nothing in the code and prohibits you from leaving it in the vehicle.

Just like there is nothing prohibiting from stopping at a store or restaurant while going from home to range with a handgun in the vehicle.

Stoveman is correct.

Pinecone said:

So you say you are transporting when you are in the vehicle, but you are then transporting it when you are not in the vehicle.



There is nothing in the code and prohibits you from leaving it in the vehicle.



Just like there is nothing prohibiting from stopping at a store or restaurant while going from home to range with a handgun in the vehicle.

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You run with that. The statute says very clearly that you may transport from home to a legal place and from the legal place to home. There are no stipulations for stops along the way. You may assume that is OK to stop, but New Jersey, not Maryland, allows for that. Maryland law is upside down. As Stoveman said, the law does not tell him that it is OK to have sex with his girlfriend, it only tells him it is illegal if she is not of age. Maryland transportation laws tell you only what is legal by exception. If you read the entire statute, you will find that it says ALL transport on public land and highways is illegal. It provides exceptions in highly restrictive circumstances. If the transport that you are doing is not to or from those exceptions, you are breaking the law as written. You may fight it and win, but that's a risk I'm not willing to take.

Let's leave behind the interpretation of the law behind for just a second. Let's say that you leave your Mossberg Shockwave in your car, and the car gets broken into or stolen. Do you really want to be telling a state trooper that your gun was stolen while you were buying groceries? I wouldn't.

GTOGUNNER said:

Stoveman is correct.

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Statute? Remember, in Maryland, all transportation of firearms on public highways and lands is illegal. You may only transport by exception and I see no exceptions for stopping somewhere and having your guns unattended.

knastera said:

Transporting means that your still have control of the firearms. You don't have control of them when you leave them unattended.

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When you make the choice to secure, and lock the vehicle, you are positively controlling access to the handgun(s) the permit holder is transporting. Sure, someone could break into the car. JUST LIKE THEY COULD BREAK INTO YOUR HOUSE. Or, just like they could thump you over the head while you're carrying concealed on the sidewalk, and take your gun. That's inadequate control, too, right?

If it's in my vehicle I'm transporting it. Even while I'm in the gas station at the cashier, with the car locked up. My permit allows me to transport.

Doesn’t “bona fide collector” resolve this issue?

Occam said:

When you make the choice to secure, and lock the vehicle, you are positively controlling access to the handgun(s) the permit holder is transporting. Sure, someone could break into the car. JUST LIKE THEY COULD BREAK INTO YOUR HOUSE. Or, just like they could thump you over the head while you're carrying concealed on the sidewalk, and take your gun. That's inadequate control, too, right?



If it's in my vehicle I'm transporting it. Even while I'm in the gas station at the cashier, with the car locked up. My permit allows me to transport.

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Occam, I have mad respect for you, you know this. I take the stand I do because all transport on public lands and highways in Maryland is illegal. Only that list of exceptions allows any transport whatsoever.

Your specific example is not so problematic in my mind. You've locked your vehicle, you can still see it and respond to an attempted theft. You could tell an officer that you were enroute to home or an allowed location and that might hold water. However, it you park that vehicle at the mall and go shopping for a few hours, I'm afraid that you are opening yourself to unnecessary risk. Maryland is totally messed up. That's one reason that I moved to PA.

Maybe my interpretation is skewed because I want to protect my W&C students, but I'd rather be conservative in my interpretation than potentially advise them to do something that could cause them problems.

Except what you are teaching your students will lead to them not carrying as much as possible and might get one of them killed.

Batt816 said:

Doesn’t “bona fide collector” resolve this issue?

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No, because there is no definition of a bona fide collector. I proved that in court when I got my restrictions removed. One of my points was that Maryland gun laws are vague and that I have a right to know if something is legal before I do it. The trooper representing MDSP objected to that. I asked him a simple question, "what is your definition of a bona fide gun collector?" His first two words were, "I think..." I told the trooper that I wasn't interested in what he thought, I needed to know how the law defined a bona fide gun collector. He said that it didn't. I won the case.

Stoveman said:

Except what you are teaching your students will lead to them not carrying as much as possible and might get one of them killed.

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That is absolutely wrong. I am not telling them to restrict carrying a loaded firearm apart from permit limitations. I'm telling them to restrict transporting unloaded, unattended firearms. The unloaded gun in the trunk is not going to protect them. I encourage them to carry everywhere they legally can. Please stop putting words in my mouth.

knastera said:

No, because there is no definition of a bona fide collector. I proved that in court when I got my restrictions removed. One of my points was that Maryland gun laws are vague and that I have a right to know if something is legal before I do it. The trooper representing MDSP objected to that. I asked him a simple question, "what is your definition of a bona fide gun collector?" His first two words were, "I think..." I told the trooper that I wasn't interested in what he thought, I needed to know how the law defined a bona fide gun collector. He said that it didn't. I won the case.

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Even without a clear definition, it clearly says a bona fide collector may move part or all of their collection. Just my interpretation.

Batt816 said:

Even without a clear definition, it clearly says a bona fide collector may move part or all of their collection. Just my interpretation.

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I totally agree with your interpretation. I'm not willing to test interpretations in Maryland with the MDSP.

knastera said:

I totally agree with your interpretation. I'm not willing to test interpretations in Maryland with the MDSP.

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I get it, but (I know I’ll probably get flamed for this) I think MDSP gets a bad wrap because of a few a-holes, mainly in the licensing division. I know a lot of troopers in my area who fully support 2A rights and feel all law abiding citizens have the right to protect themselves. They have a job to do, of course, but they don’t seem to have the “outgoing get us” attitude that I hear so much about.

knastera said:

You run with that. The statute says very clearly that you may transport from home to a legal place and from the legal place to home. There are no stipulations for stops along the way. You may assume that is OK to stop, but New Jersey, not Maryland, allows for that. Maryland law is upside down. As Stoveman said, the law does not tell him that it is OK to have sex with his girlfriend, it only tells him it is illegal if she is not of age. Maryland transportation laws tell you only what is legal by exception. If you read the entire statute, you will find that it says ALL transport on public land and highways is illegal. It provides exceptions in highly restrictive circumstances. If the transport that you are doing is not to or from those exceptions, you are breaking the law as written. You may fight it and win, but that's a risk I'm not willing to take.

Let's leave behind the interpretation of the law behind for just a second. Let's say that you leave your Mossberg Shockwave in your car, and the car gets broken into or stolen. Do you really want to be telling a state trooper that your gun was stolen while you were buying groceries? I wouldn't.

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Please don’t start with the “you can’t stop anywhere while transporting” ******** again. It’s been beat to death. If you don’t want to “risk” it that’s fine but stop telling people that’s the law.


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rbird7282 said:

Please don’t start with the “you can’t stop anywhere while transporting” ******** again. It’s been beat to death. If you don’t want to “risk” it that’s fine but stop telling people that’s the law.


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If you can provide me with one written piece of guidance from the MDSP or the AG that clarifies that, I will competely recant everything I've said. Look, I don't like this stuff any more than any of you. I will never teach my my students anything that might put them at risk for arrest. I also practice what I preach. When I go to Maryland to teach, I stop at a relative's house along the way. I bring my gun bag inside, even though it is inconvenient.

Batt816 said:

I get it, but (I know I’ll probably get flamed for this) I think MDSP gets a bad wrap because of a few a-holes, mainly in the licensing division. I know a lot of troopers in my area who fully support 2A rights and feel all law abiding citizens have the right to protect themselves. They have a job to do, of course, but they don’t seem to have the “outgoing get us” attitude that I hear so much about.

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I agree with you. When I first became an MDSP certified instructor, I talked with several state and county police officers to get their take on this. They were decent guys and I believe that they don't like this any more than we do.

I hope that you can understand that as an instructor, I'm in a position to put people at risk if I give them an interpretation that a particular officer disagrees with. Those officers are in the minority, but we can't ignore that they exist.

We're all reading the same statute ( 4-203) .

Until I see some vase law to the contrary , Stoveman is correct on the face of it .

Do you see anything that makes an exception for stopping along the way to an authorized place?

§ 4-203.
(a) (1) Except as provided in subsection (b) of this section, a person may not:

(i) wear, carry, or transport a handgun, whether concealed or open, on or about the person;

(ii) wear, carry, or knowingly transport a handgun, whether concealed or open, in a vehicle traveling on a road or parking lot generally used by the public, highway, waterway, or airway of the State;

(iii) violate item (i) or (ii) of this paragraph while on public school property in the State; or

(iv) violate item (i) or (ii) of this paragraph with the deliberate purpose of injuring or killing another person.

(2) There is a rebuttable presumption that a person who transports a handgun under paragraph (1)(ii) of this subsection transports the handgun knowingly.

(b) This section does not prohibit:

(1) the wearing, carrying, or transporting of a handgun by a person who is on active assignment engaged in law enforcement, is authorized at the time and under the circumstances to wear, carry, or transport the handgun as part of the person's official equipment, and is:

(i) a law enforcement official of the United States, the State, or a county or city of the State;

(ii) a member of the armed forces of the United States or of the National Guard on duty or traveling to or from duty;

(iii) a law enforcement official of another state or subdivision of another state temporarily in this State on official business;

(iv) a correctional officer or warden of a correctional facility in the State;

(v) a sheriff or full-time assistant or deputy sheriff of the State; or

(vi) a temporary or part-time sheriff's deputy;

(2) the wearing, carrying, or transporting of a handgun by a person to whom a permit to wear, carry, or transport the handgun has been issued under Title 5, Subtitle 3 of the Public Safety Article;

(3) the carrying of a handgun on the person or in a vehicle while the person is transporting the handgun to or from the place of legal purchase or sale, or to or from a bona fide repair shop, or between bona fide residences of the person, or between the bona fide residence and place of business of the person, if the business is operated and owned substantially by the person if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster;

(4) the wearing, carrying, or transporting by a person of a handgun used in connection with an organized military activity, a target shoot, formal or informal target practice, sport shooting event, hunting, a Department of Natural Resources-sponsored firearms and hunter safety class, trapping, or a dog obedience training class or show, while the person is engaged in, on the way to, or returning from that activity if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster;

(5) the moving by a bona fide gun collector of part or all of the collector's gun collection from place to place for public or private exhibition if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster;

(6) the wearing, carrying, or transporting of a handgun by a person on real estate that the person owns or leases or where the person resides or within the confines of a business establishment that the person owns or leases;