Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009 (Introduced in House)

Todd v. · Jan 12, 2009

Wow what are the chances with this crew we now have in the white house. I haven't read through this in it's entirety but there is some serious stuff in there.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.45:

Tootall · Jan 12, 2009

only good i can see in this is they didn't try to kill us with cost. It can't exceed $25 bucks. Other than that HOLY HELL. The passport size photo and thumbprint will be stored until time comes for the confiscations to happen. They didn't waste anytime with this one did they

novus collectus · Jan 12, 2009

First few sentences and I found a lie already:

(5) gun violence in the United States is associated with the majority of homicides, over half the suicides, and two-thirds of non-fatal violent injuries;

According to WISQUARS-

2007 Violence-Related Firearm Gunshot Nonfatal Injuries:

54,165

2007 Violence-Related All Injury Causes Nonfatal Injuries:

2,024,768

I think someone in Congress does not know how to do math.

LowRecoil · Jan 12, 2009

Absolute bull!!

We have to have renewable licenses, have all kinds of reporting requirements, etc.. to be able to own a firearm?????!!!!!

And who was it that said no new gun control would be coming because they would be too busy with the economy, etc???

Tootall · Jan 12, 2009

severe penalties for not reporting a lost or stolen gun... no more boating accidents. This bill in all honesty is their first large step towards eventual confiscation. This positively makes a national registry of each and every gun owner and every gun they own, where they are kept etc. Makes it a hell of a lot easier when they send the Guard down to seize them.

SigMatt · Jan 12, 2009

Guys, this bill was introduced at the last session. It went nowhere. Bobby Rush has tried this for a little while now.

Good to keep an eye on though.

Matt

LowRecoil · Jan 12, 2009

mpickering said:
Guys, this bill was introduced at the last session. It went nowhere. Bobby Rush has tried this for a little while now.

Good to keep an eye on though.

Matt

There is a difference between last session and this one. Care to guess if that will affect the passage of this bill?

MDFF2008 · Jan 12, 2009

You'd be amazed at the hog wash that gets introduced.

I wonder if Schumer has introduced his draft bill yet.

But I agree, the price of freedom is eternal vigilance.

SigMatt · Jan 12, 2009

Congress, no different. Still had elitist Pelosi running the show.

Introduction and floor vote are two very different things. This gets to the floor, worry. But this bill also goes for all the marbles with regard to gun licensing. This is a bright, red line to a lot of people.

I am not going to worry yet. When it picks up co-sponsors and looks like it might reach the floor, then I kick into writing my reps. Not that it will do much good seeing as they're Van Hollen and Mikulski.

Matt

frozencesium · Jan 12, 2009

Yeah, and Holt's kid was killed by a thug on a school bus while diving in front of another student and playing sacrificial lamb...he ain't going to stop. The sad part is he refuses to believe facts and labors under the absolute falsehood that he's helping.

novus collectus · Jan 12, 2009

fftootall34 said:
only good i can see in this is they didn't try to kill us with cost. It can't exceed $25 bucks. Other than that HOLY HELL. The passport size photo and thumbprint will be stored until time comes for the confiscations to happen. They didn't waste anytime with this one did they

Fee cost to eighty million gun owners: 80,000,000 x $25 = $2,000,000,000.00 (not clear if they will charge a fee to administer the test)
Cost to government-
Cost to admister the test and grade it: Maybe $10
Cost to do thumbprint: Maybe a $1
Cost of forms, processing and data entry of the forms, photos, fingerprint and issuing the license: Probably $30
Cost of backround check: Maybe $10 if they use NICS
Additional forms, brochures and booklets given to each licensee: $5
Cost of all new software to handle this new system: Millions....and if the Canada experience teaches us anything...possibly billions
Minus the $25 tax on gun owner and not including startup costs and we get $31 dollar cost to the governemnt per gun owner.

Cost to the government to license eighty million gun owners- 80,000,000 x $31 = $2,480,000,000.00

This bill is also registration of firearms.
The Canadian registration system was supposed to cost something $119 million according to claims in 1995 and registration/licensing fees would take care of all but two million dollars of it.
In the year 2000, they are starting to realize there are massive problems and costs are rising remarkably.
In December 2001 the 1995 promised maximum cost of $119 million has ballooned to $527 million. :eek:

....but wait, it gets even worse.
Three months later in 2001 the cost is now at $629 million. :shocked4:

December 2002 it is estimated the program that was supposed to cost $119 million dollars going to likely cost $1,000,000,000.00 by 2005.
....but by 2004 it is estimated the registry/licensing has already cost $2,000,000,000.00 and it is not even 2005 yet. :shocked2:

Canada has about three million licensed gun owners and about 8 million guns in the registry.
United states has more than 25 times more gun owners and at least 30 times more guns.
$2,000,000,000.00 x 30 = :shocked:

Source for Canadian timeline: http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/guncontrol/

Tootall · Jan 12, 2009

Thats a lot of zero's Novus......

novus collectus · Jan 12, 2009

fftootall34 said:
severe penalties for not reporting a lost or stolen gun... no more boating accidents. This bill in all honesty is their first large step towards eventual confiscation. This positively makes a national registry of each and every gun owner and every gun they own, where they are kept etc. Makes it a hell of a lot easier when they send the Guard down to seize them.

Canada has about 8 million guns registered, but the government itself admits there are at least a million guns there that are not registered and the international Small Arms Survey estimates there may be as many 11 to 13 million guns overall meaning there may be three to five million unregistered.....that is a lot of guns lost overboard on a windy day.

Here is the funny part which makes our jokes about losing our guns in the Bay seem suddenly real. The C68 (the firearms registration law) was passed in 1995 and was to take effect in a few years I think. From the number reported in 1994, in 1995 the number of firearms reported lost went up 700%. :lol2:

The trend continued into 1996.

Second chart:
http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/files/portal/issueareas/inventories/dynamic.html

boule · Jan 12, 2009

novus collectus said:
From the number reported in 1994, in 1995 the number of firearms reported lost went up 700%.
The trend continued into 1996.

At the same time, sales of 6ft long waste water pipes in combination with 2 endcaps went up by at least the 1000% and the same sales statistics from home improvement stores came from GB when they introduced the gun ban over there. Guess how many people suddenly had to replace small, locked off sections of their house drains?

Back on topic: I doubt that this bill will make it to even being voted on in the current climate. Nonetheless when a few accidents and public shootings happen and subsequently even the moderates swing over to a gun-ban policy it could just get dragged out of a drawer and instated as an emergency response to the "mounting violence".

Todd v. · Jan 12, 2009

boule said:
At the same time, sales of 6ft long waste water pipes in combination with 2 endcaps went up by at least the 1000% and the same sales statistics from home improvement stores came from GB when they introduced the gun ban over there. Guess how many people suddenly had to replace small, locked off sections of their house drains?

Back on topic: I doubt that this bill will make it to even being voted on in the current climate. Nonetheless when a few accidents and public shootings happen and subsequently even the moderates swing over to a gun-ban policy it could just get dragged out of a drawer and instated as an emergency response to the "mounting violence".

I hope your right but personally I don't have as much faith in their priority or their loyalty/accountability to the people. They will use every opportunity to their advantage and that would be one hell of a feather to put in ones cap. There's so much of this kind of stuff written and sitting in a drawer it could be very hard to deal with it all. Therefore, some of it is bound to squeak through even if it's just because it's the lesser of 2 evils, a pacifier of sorts.

K-Romulus · Jan 13, 2009

Good g*d, it's already started (HR 45)

Just saw this on THR:

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h45ih.txt.pdf

H. R. 45
To provide for the implementation of a system of licensing for purchasers
of certain firearms and for a record of sale system for those firearms,
and for other purposes.

IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
JANUARY 6, 2009
Mr. RUSH introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee
on the Judiciary

and

The term ‘qualifying firearm’—
16 ‘‘(A) means—
17 ‘‘(i) any handgun; or
18 ‘‘(ii) any semiautomatic firearm that
19 can accept any detachable ammunition
20 feeding device; and
21 ‘‘(B) does not include any antique.’

The bill covers owner licensing, sales registration, and "safe storage."

Still too early to find more sponsorship details on Thomas.gov . .

bluecollarkid · Jan 13, 2009

I like how so many people - lukewarm firearms owners and the unconcerned - said, "Nobody's coming to take your guns. You gun nuts are paranoid. Obama and the Democrats have more important things to worry about before even thinking about the subject of firearms in America." Guess that's egg on their face, shame we're the ones who have to pay.

I wanna throw one other thing in the mix - to all those who say "Oh the paperwork ain't bad," and, "if you don't have anything to hide then you won't mind the paperwork," and other similar sentiments along that line - that isn't what all the uproar over the paperwork relates to - I see it this way: Give the gov. one inch and they take a mile; it's none of the gov.'s business which firearms we buy, own, store, etc. Sure, on its face there is nothing wrong with the a little paperwork and restriction when buying a firearm; but what it leads to is more disturbing. From there we head to registrations like we see above, the gov. already knowing what and how many firearms you own to add to that fact, and further and greater restrictions on what guns we can purchase and how we can store them.

Maybe I am a "nut" and one of those people that give "gunowners" a bad name but I remember a saying from not too long ago - NEVER TRUST THE GOVERNMENT - which I don't and that is why I suppose I don't want the gov. tracking or having anything to do with my firearms purchasing and storage habits. So I guess we'll see how far the Anti-gun (aka Dem) crowd pushes the Heller "reasonable restriction" test.

novus collectus · Jan 13, 2009

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.45:
http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=13702&highlight=registration

SigMatt · Jan 13, 2009

Just to help out, this is not a new thing. Bobby Rush introduced this bill without change back in 2007 under HR.2666. It got 16 cosponsors and went nowhere then and in 2008.

Certainly something to be watched but let's only fight it if it starts to gain momentum and a favorable vote out of committee. No point in getting worked up over something a legislator introduces time and time again on the same topic with no progress.

Honestly, I'd prefer to see the Dems make a move in this direction. At least it gets their cards on the table for everyone to see. The Democrats have had Congress for the past two years with this bill around and didn't press it. I would point out that two of the 16 co-sponsors for HR.2666 were from Maryland.

Sure, they have a more favorable environment with Obama but the environment for Congress hasn't changed. Still historically low approval ratings and larger issues to tackle. If they want to expend political capital early on stuff like this, more power to them. I'm not one of those folks to sit and quake, wondering what they are going to do. They are going to do what they are going to do. Fight when it becomes a threat of making it to the floor. Not until.

HR.1022 had a lot more sponsors than this in 2008 and it went nowhere too.

Want to guarantee a neutered Obama presidency in 2010 through 2012? Pass this or HR.1022. Either one will guarantee the Dems lose control. I don't care what one out-of-touch legislator from Illinois thinks about gun control.

On the flip-side, if this passes and Dems retain control in 2010 and/or push forward with additional gun control without resistance, start throwing dirt on the grave of the Republic. Because then it won't be America anymore but the European United Socialist States.

Matt

Yoboney · Jan 13, 2009

Anyone who trusts the government is a fool. I used to be a fool by trusting them. Government is dishonest by nature and the people who voted for Obanga may just not realize what they have done until it is too late.

Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009 (Introduced in House)

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