USSC to take Chicago case on 2A incorporation

trickg · Sep 30, 2009

Stop trying to cloud the issue with facts!

pcfixer · Sep 30, 2009

teratos said:
I have a simple question. If the Bill of Rights does not apply to the States, then to whom does it apply? Since we are all residents of States (With the exception of D.C., Puerto Rico, the USVI, American Samoa etc.), then the Bill of Rights is absolutely worthless.

The 10th Amendment states: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

The Second Amendment clearly says the "Right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"

Shouldn't this prohibit states from passing laws restricting keeping and bearing firearms??

The 14th Amendment also comes into play:

"ll persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States"

I don't get it/

Yep, I know how you feel.!!! Facts to me seem pretty straight forward.
I think alot of confusion is so many judges and rules are screwed up from the last 100 years or so since th 14th. JMHO

rambling_one · Sep 30, 2009

I have trouble believing the Founding Fathers would restrict the federal government under the 2A, yet be content having the states deprive them of that very right. It makes no sense.

TurboHeloDriver · Sep 30, 2009

I'm all over this one. :popcorn:

Jaybeez · Sep 30, 2009

I think the court has to grant incorporation. If they dont incorporate, then federal gun laws will be trumped by state laws. That gives tennesse and montana , and other states that would follow suit, free reign.

From the anti standpoint, its "damned if we do, damned if we dont".

K-Romulus · Sep 30, 2009

teratos said:
I have a simple question. If the Bill of Rights does not apply to the States, then to whom does it apply? Since we are all residents of States (With the exception of D.C., Puerto Rico, the USVI, American Samoa etc.), then the Bill of Rights is absolutely worthless.

Silly teratos, only FUNDAMENTAL rights apply to the states.
Owning a handgun at home to protect yourself and your family is not a fundamental right. Keith Olbermann and Rachel Maddow both said so. :sad20:

teratos · Sep 30, 2009

K-Romulus said:
Silly teratos, only FUNDAMENTAL rights apply to the states.
Owning a handgun at home to protect yourself and your family is not a fundamental right. Keith Olbermann and Rachel Maddow both said so.

I KNEW there was a simple answer to it. I can't believe i didn't see it sooner. :rolleyes:

OK, so a bunch of guys who just overthrew a tyrannical government with their guns, and who believed (so I glean from the extensive writings of the founding fathers) that all governments can and will become tyrannical if left unchecked, wrote a document not only giving the government the right to restrict firearms ownership, but assigning that right to keep and bear arms only to the standing army (Army/National guard etc....since they are the only "well regulated militia"). Makes perfect sense.

I can't believe that ANY of the idiots on this board believe that the Framer's of the Constitution ever intended that the power of the government, and the power to overthrow an out of control regime should lie with the people of this efficiently run nation. I laugh at those who think this....with my best Beavis and Butthead impression.....

erwos · Sep 30, 2009

Unless the make-up of the Supreme Court changes GREATLY in the very near future, I agree that this is a slam-dunk for incorporation.

How much this is really going to help us is another story. It'll probably get us open carry, but what other specific MD gun laws will this really change?

swinokur · Sep 30, 2009

erwos said:
Unless the make-up of the Supreme Court changes GREATLY in the very near future, I agree that this is a slam-dunk for incorporation.

How much this is really going to help us is another story. It'll probably get us open carry, but what other specific MD gun laws will this really change?

If Gura wins his 2nd suit against DC to BEAR arms, we'll all be carrying. (Fingers crossed.)

Stu

INMY01TA · Sep 30, 2009

Very nervous about this...

teratos · Sep 30, 2009

I think if you look at the precedent, where all of the prior rulings were for incorporating the Amendments, it is hard even for a very liberal panel to vote against it. Saying the 2A is somehow different from the other Amendments is a very dangerous thing to do.

I still think there needs to be some system in place for the citizens to question a ruling by the supreme court. Where are their checks and balances?

Boxcab · Sep 30, 2009

erwos said:
How much this is really going to help us is another story. It'll probably get us open carry, but what other specific MD gun laws will this really change?

...thereby invalidating ordinances prohibiting possession of handguns in the home.

Nope, has nothing to do with carry outside of the home.

One step at a time. There will be 5 to 10 years of trials and hearings before this all washes out, and then we will still have to watch for end runs trying to change the 2nd Amendment. The fight will never be over as long as one politically active person believes that all the evils in the world will come to an end if all guns are removed from the planet.

Trapper · Sep 30, 2009

teratos said:
I have a simple question. If the Bill of Rights does not apply to the States, then to whom does it apply? Since we are all residents of States (With the exception of D.C., Puerto Rico, the USVI, American Samoa etc.), then the Bill of Rights is absolutely worthless.

The 10th Amendment states: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

The Second Amendment clearly says the "Right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"

Shouldn't this prohibit states from passing laws restricting keeping and bearing firearms??

The 14th Amendment also comes into play:

"ll persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States"

I don't get it/

+1,0000,0000,0000

Been asking this one myself, all the Libs I know look at me like I'm crazy.

Todd v. · Sep 30, 2009

The real problem we have that prevents simple logic from prevailing is legislating from the bench. As pointed out it's clearly written but some can't accept the constitution as it's written or the fact that they have not the power to change it.

Kharn · Sep 30, 2009

Boxcab said:
Nope, has nothing to do with carry outside of the home.

One step at a time. There will be 5 to 10 years of trials and hearings before this all washes out, and then we will still have to watch for end runs trying to change the 2nd Amendment. The fight will never be over as long as one politically active person believes that all the evils in the world will come to an end if all guns are removed from the planet.

Much faster than 5-10 years. Incorporation will be settled this year in McDonald. Nordyke will crack open Scalia's "sensitive places" wording (saying that guns could be banned there, the local gov declared a fairgrounds sensitive in Nordyke), Palmer (DC, a few common plantiffs from Heller) is suing for the right to carry a gun in public, Pena is asking a fed court to tell Cali they cant make him buy a gun from a roster, etc. Nordyke could be at the Supreme Court within a year of the McDonald ruling, Palmer and Pena are probably 3 years from a SC ruling.

ezliving · Oct 1, 2009

NPR: All Things Considered http://www.npr.org/templates/player...n=1&t=1&islist=false&id=113352305&m=113352289

Boxcab · Oct 1, 2009

Kharn said:
Much faster than 5-10 years. Incorporation will be settled this year in McDonald. Nordyke will crack open Scalia's "sensitive places" wording (saying that guns could be banned there, the local gov declared a fairgrounds sensitive in Nordyke), Palmer (DC, a few common plantiffs from Heller) is suing for the right to carry a gun in public, Pena is asking a fed court to tell Cali they cant make him buy a gun from a roster, etc. Nordyke could be at the Supreme Court within a year of the McDonald ruling, Palmer and Pena are probably 3 years from a SC ruling.

I hope your right! The very "Anti" States (NY, MD, NJ, CA, Il) will fight back and drag their feet just like DC is currently doing. It will take 2 to 3 years of "post SOCUS finding" to sort it out at the State levels. Maybe they will roll over, but I doubt it. The Anti gun beliefs of current public officials run very deep and have been strengthened by the fact they have spent their whole life believing what they do. They will fight any loosening of the current laws, even if they have to go after the 2nd Amendment itself. To be positive though, we are in the best position for regaining our 2A freedoms then ever in my life time.

blindnoodle · Oct 1, 2009

gprimr1 said:
Can private citizens file Friend of the Court briefs?

I think MSI should file a brief, especially highlighting the discriminatory practices. That would give the court another angle.

Yes. Follow SCOTUS Rule 37 and you'll be good to go.

I was coming in here to ask if MSI would be filing one. Good thinking.

Norton · Oct 1, 2009

MSI will file briefs as finances allow :innocent0

Lawyers cost money.....lots of it.

blindnoodle · Oct 1, 2009

Norton said:
MSI will file briefs as finances allow

Lawyers cost money.....lots of it.

Any person of the general public or any organization can file a brief. The person writing or filing does not need to be a lawyer.

Is it better for one to write the brief, maybe. Required? no.

USSC to take Chicago case on 2A incorporation

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