Wrenn PI Granted (DC Shall Issue)

Armadillofz1 said:

"About 100 people have applied for permits, and very few have been denied, she said.

"The vast majority of people applying for permits to carry in the District are not D.C. residents," Lanier said on NewsChannel 8's "NewsTalk" program. "Our residents are very clear that this is not something they wanted."

Maybe people dont want to risk loosing the insanely high applicatin fee on a gamble that they will not be approved.

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This is exactly why I haven't applied (yet).

Bigfoot21075 said:

If you can make a wrong turn in DC and end up in the NSA campus you have other issues with your teleporting machine.

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Either that or you really suck at driving.

Dogmeat said:

While we may want to see this go all the way to SCOTUS, and win there, I am not sure that DC will appeal. If DC gets smacked hard by Scullin, the Anti's may decide that a win in SCOTUS will be unlikely and, instead of taking the chance of that this ruling be applied nationally, they might choose to live with it, lick their wounds, and limit the damage to DC.

Anyone want to guess what the odds are that there will be no appeal?

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The anti's need a big SCOTUS win.

What people do not realize, the 2A has been recognized quietly in America. Slowly but surely the Jim Crowe laws to keep the black man subdued only remain in elightened New England (and the left[wing] coast).

Dogmeat said:

While we may want to see this go all the way to SCOTUS, and win there, I am not sure that DC will appeal. If DC gets smacked hard by Scullin, the Anti's may decide that a win in SCOTUS will be unlikely and, instead of taking the chance of that this ruling be applied nationally, they might choose to live with it, lick their wounds, and limit the damage to DC.

Anyone want to guess what the odds are that there will be no appeal?

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In their own twisted way they still believe they are right and because they only see the world from their perspective they will foolishly appeal.

Independent polls indicate second amendment support is higher than anytime in the last 30 years and still trending upwards.

We need to seize the momentum.

We also need to get proactive warning other states low information voters about O'Malley's anti-gun and pro-criminal record. An ounce of prevention...

Afrikeber said:

In their own twisted way they still believe they are right and because they only see the world from their perspective they will foolishly appeal.

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They will appeal, because if they don't its a concession..

If it stands it will lead to the next case and eventuality a circuit split..

Every time an opinion is quoted in a brief it becomes settled law..

There is a lot riding on this..

Think CA 9.

Brooklyn said:

They will appeal, because if they don't its a concession..

If it stands it will lead to the next case and eventuality a circuit split..

Every time an opinion is quoted in a brief it becomes settled law..

There is a lot riding on this..

Think CA 9.

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appealing to the DC circuit is almost a given. If they lose there then a scotus appeal is less likely IMO.

Afrikeber said:

In their own twisted way they still believe they are right and because they only see the world from their perspective they will foolishly appeal.

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This.

Even if they loose in SCOTUS they will say the justices are wrong because they didn't agree with DC.

Same with MD.

Dogmeat said:

While we may want to see this go all the way to SCOTUS, and win there, I am not sure that DC will appeal. If DC gets smacked hard by Scullin, the Anti's may decide that a win in SCOTUS will be unlikely and, instead of taking the chance of that this ruling be applied nationally, they might choose to live with it, lick their wounds, and limit the damage to DC.

Anyone want to guess what the odds are that there will be no appeal?

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In an optimist. Odds of no appeal are 25%. DC does not have the "LGOC is legal here" argument put forth in Woolard.

Personally i dont want to see them appeal. Id rather DC concede the right exists outside the home and needs no further justification. I have zero doubt Roberts is watching this. Some people suggest Roberts looks for acceptance (of the inevitable) before he wants cases.

I sense we are getting to acceptance.

Dogmeat said:

While we may want to see this go all the way to SCOTUS, and win there, I am not sure that DC will appeal. If DC gets smacked hard by Scullin, the Anti's may decide that a win in SCOTUS will be unlikely and, instead of taking the chance of that this ruling be applied nationally, they might choose to live with it, lick their wounds, and limit the damage to DC.

Anyone want to guess what the odds are that there will be no appeal?

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Congress, 2016 Politics and the like probably weigh higher than SCOTUS-Roulette, but even that should not be ignored. After all, Illinois had the chance and Madigan (their AG) really, really talked like she was going to take it all the way. It would have gotten cert without a doubt. But she balked.

If the other side is trying to avoid the question being asked, then the risk in the DC case is that the DC Circuit will almost surely reverse Scullin just based on the fact Obama stacked that deck pretty hard last year. That would put the decision to appeal a Circuit ruling squarely onto the plaintiffs.

But also note that DC - unlike Illinois - has a GOP-led Congress looking over their shoulder. DC is a special case, constitutionally. I think DC could get away with accepting the Scullin ruling and say, "damned if we do, damned if we don't because the GOP in Congress will just change the law if we win."

They could even sell it as the 'smarter' option, because at least by accepting the ruling they keep some of their law. Congress would wholesale demolish it. I don't think Congress will do anything meaningful (though I am hopeful), but that threat is cover enough to accept what they got if that is what The Powers That Be wishes for DC to do. It won't be capitulation, it would be sold as a strategy to keep as much as they could in the face of Congressional action.

So I won't take your bet. I think in this case, anything could happen. The fact the DC Council, Mayor and Chief have not screamed they will fight is already a departure from every other ruling of this type, nationwide. Everybody else gets their game face on and says they will fight (even if they eventually back away), but DC has not even gone that far. Let's wait and see what Mendelsen is given to say in public. He appeared to be the public tip of the spear in Palmer.

Anything is possible, but the odds are still against us carrying in DC soon.

Two Years.

Thanks DC-W, interesting comments at WAPO forum

DC-W said:

Washington Post article
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...dc8-11e4-8b6c-0dcce21e223d_story.html?hpid=z4

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Kind of interesting, how the usual flock of progtard comment trolls are missing at the WAPO article, and the few remaining are getting roundly spanked with the facts, by 2A rights fans.

Chief Lanier doesnt impress much...

RepublicanJD said:

Interesting. Obviously, she doesn't like it, but she's not going to stand in the way of those that want permits. I hope this is resolved by SCOTUS in our favor and sooner rather than later.

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Just a side observation, Chief Lanier doesn't seem very professional, or sharp, in that abc 7 local tv interview, or in the Washington Times article quotes, either.

The body language, messy hair, stumbling over basic legal terms...in spite of the interviewers best efforts to lob her some easy ones...

I guess it goes with the territory- considering the Council itself, and its own standards of conduct.

Bruce at ABC might be better off talking to the DC Attorney General next time. http://oag.dc.gov/multimedia/welcome-oag
"Watchdog on corruption" = long overdue.

IJM said:

This is exactly why I haven't applied (yet).

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It's why i didn't apply when i lived in Maryland

heh, thanks Patrick

Patrick said:

DC, LA, San Diego, NYC, Silicon Valley, Phoenix, Bangkok...Calvert is just where I live. If you knew me you'd be more judicious in your condescension.

And seeing as how you are so well versed in the world of DC, please explain to us kids in class the procedures to be followed when a contract security guard or uniformed civil service doing random searches finds any type of illegal contraband. Who do they contact and how do they document?

Please. Waiting to learn from you.

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Turbo- seriously, I am also interested in more specifics -
I do a little traveling too, and may soon to DC, just a simple business guy.

Patrick, if thats you posting at Calguns as patrick-2, thanks.
Good explanations "level setting" some of us noobs there.

In the real world private parties may not appeal due to Money vs odds. That is not applicable here. Only reason they would not appeal is beyond my knowledge.

Congress?! Here is the legislation that has been filed in the House and Senate. Has it gone *anywhere* Any hearings? Any action at all? Has it been attached to anything important that the Prez can't/won't veto? And if it hasn't why isn't this posturing? Red meat to the base, so to speak?


12015 CONG US S 874, 114th CONGRESS, 1st Session (Mar 26, 2015), Introduced in Senate, PROPOSED ACTION: Amended.

22015 CONG US HR 1701, 114th CONGRESS, 1st Session (Mar 26, 2015), Introduced in House, PROPOSED ACTION: Amended.

Now, I take the point that Congress *could* do something if DC appeals the case. But that possibility does not appear to have deterred DC in the past. True, Congress is now controlled by the GOP (and it did not control the Senate when Palmer was decided), but the GOP need only enact a joint resolution within the next month to negate this legislation and they could bypass the Prez altogether. See DC ST § 1-206.02 (" Except as provided in paragraph (2) of this subsection, such act shall take effect upon the expiration of the 30-calendar-day period (excluding Saturdays, Sundays, and holidays, and any day on which neither House is in session because of an adjournment sine die, a recess of more than 3 days, or an adjournment of more than 3 days) beginning on the day such act is transmitted by the Chairman to the Speaker of the House of Representatives and the President of the Senate, or upon the date prescribed by such act, whichever is later, unless during such 30-day period, there has been enacted into law a joint resolution disapproving such act."). See Wrenn Slip op. at 3 ("The permanent legislation was transmitted to Congress on March 6, 2015, and the projected law date is June 16, 2015"). Any joint resolutions filed?

Schipperke said:

In the real world private parties may not appeal due to Money vs odds. That is not applicable here. Only reason they would not appeal is beyond my knowledge.

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You have to think about it in terms of levels. A win/loss in a district (not DC but a judicial district) means that ruling only to applies that district until it is heard at a higher level. Appealing to a higher court, say a Circuit Court, would have that ruling apply to the jurisdiction of that Circuit Court. This is how we end up with splits at the circuit level. The Circuit that includes California may say no but the Circuit that includes Texas may say yes. Until that case, or one like it, is heard at the SCOTUS, the rulings don't apply nationally.

Why would an anti-2A group take a case, that they were sure they would loose, all the way to SCOTUS where the ruling would then apply nationally. If they were paying attention to the big picture, they wouldn't.

That is why it is so important that the RIGHT case be brought before the SCOTUS and, at least in my opinion, why Gura has been slowly building a strong base of pro-2A wins before the big question arrives at SCOTUS.

Anyone want to guess what the odds are that there will be no appeal?

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Near zero. Overreach is their middle name . . . that's how we got Heller. They just can't help themselves because they are so "right".

That is why it is so important that the RIGHT case be brought before the SCOTUS and, at least in my opinion, why Gura has been slowly building a strong base of pro-2A wins before the big question arrives at SCOTUS.

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Gura has already brought the question to SCOTUS and will bring it again. They have so far said "No thanks" to some very good cases. (Kachalsky, Moore . . . )

press1280 said:

As far as the denial affecting future CCWs, I think that's more of a myth than reality. I haven't heard of any cases where someone was actually denied. I specifically disclosed on my Maine application that I had been denied in NJ for lack of "justifiable need". Permit showed up a few weeks later, no questions asked.

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It depends where you're applying. Certain towns in Massachusetts view a license application as a scavenger hunt for an excuse to hang a denial on.

Maestro Pistolero said:

Near zero. Overreach is their middle name . . . that's how we got Heller. They just can't help themselves because they are so "right".



Gura has already brought the question to SCOTUS and will bring it again. They have so far said "No thanks" to some very good cases. (Kachalsky, Moore . . . )

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If SCOTUs doesn't. then......http://tenthamendmentcenter.com/report/

This past legislative session saw some type of nullification bill introduced in nearly every state, addressing issues from NSA spying to preserving the Second Amendment. To highlight just how far the movement has come, the Tenth Amendment Center’s 30-page report is the first-ever comprehensive look into the State of the Nullification Movement.
Lovers of the Constitution and liberty must take the long-sighted view and exercise your right to resist and nullify the mountains of federal actions that do not fit within the confines of the Constitution. This Report will show you the path already forged. It is up to you to take it and build it into something even stronger.

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"Double down to push through the resistance..." - Alinsky

Maestro Pistolero said:

Near zero. Overreach is their middle name . . . that's how we got Heller. They just can't help themselves because they are so "right".

Gura has already brought the question to SCOTUS and will bring it again. They have so far said "No thanks" to some very good cases. (Kachalsky, Moore . . . )

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Agreed. IANAL, so have no idea how to evaluate on the merits, and leave it to much smarter posters here.

As a 50 year news reader, and independent thinker, with an honest newspaper man in my family, I would suggest the patterns of the Narrative and money lining up to promote more, that show that "its now or never", for the Progressives "to push through the resistance". The ideologues and the money men behind them aren't going to abandon the 40 year march thru institutions; academia, the press, civil service unions, Congress and the lower courts appointments, to get here, and not achieve gun control on their terms.

There is a sort of blindness to the facts among the Progressive Elite, in the echo chambers of DC, NYC, San Fran, etc- those who have been drinking their own bathwater so long, they know longer know what is real, except what they say is real. Others who do know better, are completely cynical and mendacious- the Ayers, Podestas, Blumenthals, and their Masters, including "those whose name must not be spoken."

No one paying attention can doubt that there is a very large and coordinated "under the radar" gun control effort underway, that is multi-pronged-effort.

1. Bogus fact manufacturing: Bloombergs spending $50M money at Johns Hopkins, to endow a public health initiative headed by Teret, on his own personal mission to ban guns. Harvard releases a bogus study, that even the godfather of gun stats at UC Davis flatly admits is flawed, and how many other places are funded by places like Joyce, etc. Lets not forget our Surgeon General, former head of Drs for Obama, calling for research, and Bloombergs Soda Czar, Mr Ebola at CDC. The bought and paid for "scientists" are still holding out at NASA, IPCC, UN and calling everyone an evil terrorist who questions methodology, much less conclusions. Do you think money wont buy researchers and results?

2. We dont even need to talk about the press and all the various sock puppet faux .orgs, that have been sprouted for years under Center for American Progress shells and networks. Next up is manufacturing memes, and truths because enough people say its so, it must be so. Just follow the money. In addition to Bloomberg and his latest ridiculous Al Jazheera hires, and all the various PR firms around the country donating and helping the Fake Moms and Towns, he's also buying journolistas through Columbia and Dart how to write gun propaganda seminars.

3. Follow the money. SAF called it- the stealth UBC via paid for signatures on citizen propositions. In addition to Gates and Balmer, and Silicon Valley smart gun prize guy Nick Hanaer, you've got Tom Steyer, who's private LLC gave the MOST money last cycle to progressive pols. We dont need to talk about the proven older players, Joyce Foundation in ThugTown, Ford, and too many more to mention, spending money on grants and programs, for all the fakey community groups that take orders to go march or protest LGS, and so forth. Call it SEIU, distributed.

Don't doubt for a minute the "we dont care about gun owners rights" spouting DC Council and Mayor "I hate guns" Muriel WONT take marching orders from The Man, even if it doesnt make legal sense to take the risk. Those pols have no choice but to double down to push through the resistance, and the Executive Action Ends Justify the Means proof is repeated over and over in progtard states and cities, CA, WA, CO, and you know the east coast better than anyone.

Remember, Obama "packed" the Second CA with his latest appointees, reportedly to be ready for ACA decision, earlier, and if you are a believer in KCs politics = odds game theory, then Wrenn will look ripe for action by judicial activists there.

If anything, this HAS to be appealed, for it to get to SCOTUS, in time for Obama to take credit, after trashing the Justices like he has in past. Back to the beginning- Progressivism v2.0 is all about the Narrative.

Without "War on Women" and "For the Children" to distract the yoga pants mommies, the whole thing falls apart, legacy wise, for the One,

and far more important- who's up to bat next? - the Security Moms have time to look at the huge security risk Obama and HRC have created in foreign policy...and thats the game ender for her, and the left democrats... do you see the Reliable Party Organs and embedded Journolistas pushing back now, in any serious way, other than some tap dancing to claim credibility? Are they telling the truth on Benghazi, Fast n Furious, or being dragged into it, bit by bit by folks like Judicial Watch, and Sharyl Atkisson?