Odd Mosin?

rwbow1969 · Oct 10, 2013

A friend of mine showed me this rifle and it confused the heck out of me. I think it may have been sporterized. The cartridges and stripper clip are what he said came with it. His father, who has long passed left this to him. He said it's 7.62 ? It's not a 7.62x54R cartridge though. Maybe it was rechambered?

Here's the markings on the hex receiver.

"crest looking thing"
New England
Westinghouse
Company
191?

1360341

Some pics:

BradMacc82 · Oct 10, 2013

Looks like a .308 to me, looks too short to be '06.

But then again, I'm a C&R n00b...

Redcat · Oct 10, 2013

Pretty definitely sporterized...
http://www.mosinnagant.net/ussr/US-Mosin-Nagants.asp
I'm sure Yellowsled will be along shortly with a wealth of knowledge...

Alphabrew · Oct 10, 2013

It's a sporterized New England Westinghouse M91. I didn't know they came in something other than 7.62x54r so hopefully an expert will opine.

ken792 · Oct 10, 2013

The stripper clip is an M14 clip with 7.62 NATO rounds on it. While it will chamber and fire out of a Mosin, it is highly dangerous. I hope he was not shooting that out of it.

rwbow1969 · Oct 10, 2013

ken792 said:
The stripper clip is an M14 clip with 7.62 NATO rounds on it. While it will chamber and fire out of a Mosin, it is highly dangerous. I hope he was not shooting that out of it.

My friend said he remembers his dad and friends shooting it and commenting on how bad it kicked. My friend has not shot it and has no plans to, he's just curious about the rifle and it's possible history.

reverendbeer · Oct 10, 2013

rwbow1969 said:
A friend of mine showed me this rifle and it confused the heck out of me. I think it may have been sporterized. The cartridges and stripper clip are what he said came with it. His father, who has long passed left this to him. He said it's 7.62 ? It's not a 7.62x54R cartridge though. Maybe it was rechambered?

Here's the markings on the hex receiver.

"crest looking thing"
New England
Westinghouse
Company
191?

1360341

Some pics:

Totally sporterized. However, it's fixable!

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/ad/1409740.htm#1409750

Alphabrew · Oct 10, 2013

reverendbeer said:
Totally sporterized. However, it's fixable!

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/ad/1409740.htm#1409750

I'm not sure that a 91/30 stock will fit it. It might, I'm just not sure.

reverendbeer · Oct 10, 2013

rwbow1969 said:
My friend said he remembers his dad and friends shooting it and commenting on how bad it kicked.

That's pretty much SOP for a Mosin.

rwbow1969 said:
My friend has not shot it and has no plans to

It shouldn't be a problem, but if he ever does decide on shooting it, I'd have it checked out if they've been blasting NATO thru it....

rwbow1969 said:
he's just curious about the rifle and it's possible history.

Shoot him (ha!) this link, for everything you'd ever want to know about Mosins: www.7.62x54r.net

reverendbeer · Oct 10, 2013

Alphabrew said:
I'm not sure that a 91/30 stock will fit it. It might, I'm just not sure.

SHUT UP, BREW

Fine, he can get barrel measurements, match it to a barrel length and pick the proper model here.

smdub · Oct 10, 2013

x2. Looks like 308. Likely the bullets don't go w/ the mosin? Could have been another rifle of his dads? I know I've got odd rounds around the house I don't have guns for (anymore)

reverendbeer · Oct 10, 2013

rwbow1969 said:
The cartridges and stripper clip are what he said came with it.

The clip and rounds are Canadian milsurp. The clip is..."a Version C Charger (standard production). This is the standard charger used by the Canadian forces, basically it's a phosphated Version B. I have found examples dated between 4-59 to 1983 made by Dominion Arsenal, Quebec 'DAQ' then Industries Valcartier Industries 'IVI'."

Ammo is from same and as others have said, it's 7.62NATO.

Infos from here.

Machodoc · Oct 10, 2013

It's potentially a pretty nice rifle, and can be put back to original condition. If he wants to sell it, and the chamber hasn't been buggered up, I'd make him an offer.

yellowsled · Oct 10, 2013

Front sight is all wrong. Not fixable IMHO.

It should be 54r, but it could have been rechambered.

Not worth to much as it's been sporterized and the barrel appears but down.

iH8DemLibz · Oct 10, 2013

Hide your collectable and valuable guns.

Bubba is on the loose again and he has his kitchen table with him.

Hi-Torque · Oct 10, 2013

You should field strip it and check the date on the receiver tang. The 4th & 5th pictures tell me that the barrel has been removed from the receiver and reinstalled. Looks like a gray line right at the hex, and then 2 stampings that are much newer than the original Westinghouse marks. I'd go out on a limb and say someone made big changes to this gun and marked it appropriately. I just wish the stampings made more sense.

Did you try to chamber one of those 308 rounds, or look to see if the bolt or extractor were modified? Generally i'd say they just have the wrong ammo with the gun, but there's enough odd things going on that it is entirely possible it was converted to 7.62 NATO and sporterized.

Take a picture of the bolt, and the chamber, and the story will be told. The 7.62 NATO is not a rimmed cartridge, so the Mosin extractor would be highly modified to work with the NATO round. I believe one of our resident Mosin collectors just scored a 30-06 Mosin that should have similar work done to it, as it was professionally converted long ago. Pictures were promised, so the comparison might answer your questions.

Sirex · Oct 10, 2013

Do you have a pic of the bolt face? Where are you located? I have some 7.62x54r dummy rounds we could cycle thru it if you are close. It's fairly/sadly common to see American Mosins Bubba'd as after the Russians cancelled the contracts with Westinghouse and Remington, some were used by American forces in certain areas, some were sold elsewhere, the rest were sold as cheap surplus rifles folks bought cheap and cut up into sporters and deer rifles. Back then they didn't much care about the collect ability of the cheap commie rifles. Get some pics of the bolt face, and the markings on the bolt, and it may help more. My first Westinghouse was sporterized just like yours.

rwbow1969 · Oct 10, 2013

I'll see if I can get the pictures requested. He's a firefighter and on duty the next two days. So, as soon as I get them, I'll put em up.

It's always interesting to see what kind of story a firearm can tell you.

jodavk · Oct 11, 2013

Bannerman's converted/sporterized many Remington M1891s to 30.06; never saw a converted NEW. The barrels are always shortened at the breech. That barrel has not been shortened at the breech. From what I can see, it looks like the original sight; so maybe it is the original length barrel. A visit to the 7.62x54r.net will give you the specs.
No way would I attempt to fire anything but a 7.62x54r round out of it, unless you have a gunsmith check it out. Looks like the original black walnut stock, too. It has the US surcharge eagles stamped on the barrel and probably a flaming ordinance bomb on the left side of the receiver high wall. This rifle was bought by the US from New England Westinghouse Co after our gov forbid sales to the new red Russian gov. The US made M1891s have a very interesting history; even being issued to US soldiers & sailors to fight the Bolsheviks, in Russia. Anyways, try and find some proper bullets and fill the 5-rnd mag; then hand cycle (safely) the round out. If they cycle properly, there is a good chance it will fire safely. Have a gunsmith check it out if there is any doubt. If the barrel is the proper length, you can still find Russian & Finn M1891 stocks for sale (~$100 dollars); it will be very hard to find an original US one. All the other parts needed can still be found too; if you don't mind Russian stuff. Good Luck.

Lou45 · Oct 12, 2013

BradMacc82 said:
Looks like a .308 to me, looks too short to be '06.

But then again, I'm a C&R n00b...

ken792 said:
The stripper clip is an M14 clip with 7.62 NATO rounds on it. While it will chamber and fire out of a Mosin, it is highly dangerous. I hope he was not shooting that out of it.

Hi-Torque said:
You should field strip it and check the date on the receiver tang. The 4th & 5th pictures tell me that the barrel has been removed from the receiver and reinstalled. Looks like a gray line right at the hex, and then 2 stampings that are much newer than the original Westinghouse marks. I'd go out on a limb and say someone made big changes to this gun and marked it appropriately. I just wish the stampings made more sense.

Did you try to chamber one of those 308 rounds, or look to see if the bolt or extractor were modified? Generally i'd say they just have the wrong ammo with the gun, but there's enough odd things going on that it is entirely possible it was converted to 7.62 NATO and sporterized.

Take a picture of the bolt, and the chamber, and the story will be told. The 7.62 NATO is not a rimmed cartridge, so the Mosin extractor would be highly modified to work with the NATO round. I believe one of our resident Mosin collectors just scored a 30-06 Mosin that should have similar work done to it, as it was professionally converted long ago. Pictures were promised, so the comparison might answer your questions.

Back in the day, long before my time, some of the US made (Remington and Westinghouse) M91's that didn't go to the NEW Russian Red Government were rechambered to .30/06 by one or more commercial entities (Bannerman may have been one of them) and sold on the US commercial market. Most, if not all, were stamped in the barrel/receiver area the .30/06 designation/caliber, perhaps a few weren't. If this gun (pictured in thread) has a .30/06 chamber, DON'T shoot it as these were bombs going someplace to blow up. I strongly urge you and anybody else to NOT shoot this gun regardless of what may happen down the road. Burning 7.62 NATO through it is definately not a good idea, well, if you like to keep all body parts intact and operating normally.

Odd Mosin?

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

Get Wiffit

Attachments

Ultimate Member

Curmudgeon

Binary male Lesbian

Ultimate Member

Get Wiffit

Stiff Member

Binary male Lesbian

Stiff Member

Stiff Member

Ultimate Member

Stiff Member

Old Guy

Retired C&R Addict

When All Else Fails.

Active Member

Powered by natural gas

Get Wiffit

Active Member

R.I.P.

Users who are viewing this thread

Log in

Forum statistics