Scope questions

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  • ras_oscar

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 23, 2014
    1,666
    New owner of an AR10. Purchased a non magnified red dot sight to have something for the first trip to the range. It became quickly clear that if I want to shoot beyond 50 yards I need a scope to see the target. Beginning the research in the wonderful world of glass, and have received a couple conflicting pieces of information. Thus the questions below.

    1. Is it necessary to match the scope to the caliber I'm shooting? some scopes say rimfire, some say AR15, some say nothing.

    2. What is the most useful zoom factor if I want to shoot .308 win between 50 and 200 yards? I'd like a scope that has low end zoom,. say 2 or 3 for close shots. Will 10X get me a clear target at 200 yards?

    3. What's a a good manufacturer to research? I am presently shooting paper, but would like a scope rugged enough to take into the field to preserve my options.

    My budget is $300. I'd prefer to keep the scope simple.
     

    davsco

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 21, 2010
    8,607
    Loudoun, VA
    1-4 variable should work great for you. 4x should be plenty at 200 yds and 1x will let you pick up and blast closer targets. may need to up your budget though for decent glass. look at used scopes though as 3 gunners go from 1-4 to 1-6 to 1-8, so may be some deals out there. look at brianenos.com classifieds for used scopes, here too of course. i had a trijicon 1-4 with green dot that i really liked but wanted more magnification so sold it.

    hit a cabelas or basspro or the like and look thru all their scopes to see what may work for you. you don't want anything labeled ".22" but beyond that you want either a 1" or 30mm tube. but for the most part there's no free lunch, you get what you pay for, question is how nice do you want or need.
     

    ToolAA

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 17, 2016
    10,500
    God's Country
    I started out with a Nixon P223 3-9x (they make a P308 version too). It was a good value and a great starter scope.

    However you might want to consider the Vortex Viper PST 1-4x24. New these were $700 but the model is discontinued and I suspect you can find them a lot cheaper. Throw in a coupon and you are getting close to your budget.
    https://www.midwayusa.com/product/...inated-tmcq-reticle-matte-with-target-turrets

    I’ve used mine successfully to shoot NRA High power matches at 200yds.

    Here is a screen shot of a 2” group at 500yds at Mayberry last November. I remember the 12” steel plate looked like a little white dot at 4x and was mostly covered up by the 1 moa dot in the Center of the reticle. I had a spotter with me who was really good at calling the wind so I cant take all of the credit, but the scope did it’s part for sure.

    5707fc38cb79392d3712af10d13fd13a.jpg


    Ebay has used ones with rings in the $450 range. Since Vortex offers a lifetime warranty it’s a pretty low risk used item purchase.
     

    woodline

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947
    Big fan of the primary arms ACSS 1-6 and it's within your budget. Great reticle on good value for money glass. Lifetime warranty on the new ones, too.
     

    rockstarr

    Major Deplorable
    Feb 25, 2013
    4,592
    The Bolshevik Lands
    1-4 variable should work great for you. 4x should be plenty at 200 yds and 1x will let you pick up and blast closer targets. may need to up your budget though for decent glass. look at used scopes though as 3 gunners go from 1-4 to 1-6 to 1-8, so may be some deals out there. look at brianenos.com classifieds for used scopes, here too of course. i had a trijicon 1-4 with green dot that i really liked but wanted more magnification so sold it.

    hit a cabelas or basspro or the like and look thru all their scopes to see what may work for you. you don't want anything labeled ".22" but beyond that you want either a 1" or 30mm tube. but for the most part there's no free lunch, you get what you pay for, question is how nice do you want or need.

    the last sentence of this, in capital letters. Many of us have had to learn this the hard way.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,881
    For the other part of the OP's question:

    If a scope is specifically marketed as "Rimfire" , it isn't designed to hold up to the recoil G forces of a centerfire . ( Most "rifle" scopes are good for at least the recoil level of .30-06 larger Magnums , recoil can be an issue).

    Rimfire scopes are generally parallax adjusted for 50yds . Most "rifle" scopes for 100yds . Traditionally Shotgun and Muzzleloader scopes were adjusted for 50yds , but with rifled shotguns using sabots, and so called "Magnum" muzzleloaders , some of them are set for 75yds , check the specifications on the specific scope.

    I am notorious for my scope preferences ;

    Fixed power is Good.
    Lower magnifications are Good. ( Unless you have serious vision problems . Like coke bottle and guide dog serious .)

    4x is good all around , out to farther than 99% have business taking a shot . 2.5x is great for up to medium distances , and not terrible for all around rifle.

    Field of view and flexibility of eye relief is way more beneficial than being able to see the individual hairs on Bambi's chest.

    On the flip side , a 1x scope has very small advantage of target acquisition over a 2.5x that is properly mounted, on a rifle that reasonably fits .

    And for those who are inclined to high magnification anyway , after a certain point the quality of the glass and coatings matters more than pure magnification.
     

    AlBeight

    Member
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 30, 2017
    4,372
    Hampstead
    For the other part of the OP's question:

    If a scope is specifically marketed as "Rimfire" , it isn't designed to hold up to the recoil G forces of a centerfire . ( Most "rifle" scopes are good for at least the recoil level of .30-06 larger Magnums , recoil can be an issue).

    Rimfire scopes are generally parallax adjusted for 50yds . Most "rifle" scopes for 100yds . Traditionally Shotgun and Muzzleloader scopes were adjusted for 50yds , but with rifled shotguns using sabots, and so called "Magnum" muzzleloaders , some of them are set for 75yds , check the specifications on the specific scope.

    I am notorious for my scope preferences ;

    Fixed power is Good.
    Lower magnifications are Good. ( Unless you have serious vision problems . Like coke bottle and guide dog serious .)

    4x is good all around , out to farther than 99% have business taking a shot . 2.5x is great for up to medium distances , and not terrible for all around rifle.

    Field of view and flexibility of eye relief is way more beneficial than being able to see the individual hairs on Bambi's chest.

    On the flip side , a 1x scope has very small advantage of target acquisition over a 2.5x that is properly mounted, on a rifle that reasonably fits .

    And for those who are inclined to high magnification anyway , after a certain point the quality of the glass and coatings matters more than pure magnification.
    Great summary Bigfoot44. I’d like to add for the OP’s sake, if by “take it into the field” you mean hunting, then 200 yds with a 4x scope probably won’t work for you. I shoot my 30-06 at 200 yds with a 3-9 x 40 mm scope and can barely see the small red sticker on the bullseye on the black (18”?) shoot-n-see target at 9x power, but I can still see it enough to settle in on about 1 MOA groups with a proper rest or bipod. If you’re shooting at an 18” square plate at 200 yds and your goal is to simply hit somewhere on the plate, you might do okay at 4x (although 6x would be better). If you’re trying to hunt, and want some kind of MOA-like accuracy, you’ll need at least 9x in my opinion. At that range in a hunting situation, simply hitting the object isn’t a satisfactory result. Most hunting shots are taken at less than 100 yds, so if you’re planning on hunting out to 200 yds or more, you need to re-examine your budget and buy the very best glass with the most magnification you can possibly afford. Again, this opinion is assuming you’re talking hunting, if not - please disregard.
     

    cobra

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 26, 2009
    2,058
    White Marsh
    Nikon P 308 with Nikon mount.
    When using the Nikon matching mount the hash marks line up on the elevation turret.
    When I was using the psi mount at first, elevation marks would be too high once sighted in.
     

    ras_oscar

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 23, 2014
    1,666
    I am new to rifles and new to scopes. I mentioned 200 yards because that's the longest target at the range. If I can't reliably hit vital organs at the expected range when hunting I have no business even thinking about it. Not sure whether or not I'll end up hunting, it depends on how long it takes me to get better than I am now. I only mentioned it because I'd prefer to keep the option open, and because I don't want a piece of equipment so fragile it breaks or gets knocked out of zero at the slightest glance.
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,818
    I am new to rifles and new to scopes. I mentioned 200 yards because that's the longest target at the range. If I can't reliably hit vital organs at the expected range when hunting I have no business even thinking about it. Not sure whether or not I'll end up hunting, it depends on how long it takes me to get better than I am now. I only mentioned it because I'd prefer to keep the option open, and because I don't want a piece of equipment so fragile it breaks or gets knocked out of zero at the slightest glance.

    Just for the 'who gives a crap' section, in over 45 years of deer hunting, I haven't taken a shot over 170 yds. But then again, I hunt in Md.
     

    davsco

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 21, 2010
    8,607
    Loudoun, VA
    If I can't reliably hit vital organs at the expected range when hunting I have no business even thinking about it.

    best post of the day, if not week, month or year! lots of talk about 'long range' hunting, 4, 5, 6, 700 + yard shots. shot a match at peacemaker out to 800yds last weekend, NO ONE got all their first shot hits (the best was 19 out of 25), and this was an easy belly match with bipods on muddy but mostly level ground, and the steel wasn't trotting along.
     

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