Another cart before horse story: Spreewerke P38

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  • mawkie

    C&R Whisperer
    Sep 28, 2007
    4,353
    Catonsville
    -I've previously mentioned how I have a habit of grabbing accessories for specific firearms that I don't own but are on my bucket list. Figure the gun will follow. So a dozen years ago I got into a little p*ssing match in an auction with Dennis Todd, the Class 3 dealer out of PA. Dennis has a good eye and we both went after the same late war pebble grain P38 holster. I prevailed even though I didn't have a late war P38 to go with it. I had started a search for a Spreewerke and figured the holster would go well with it.
    -Little did I know that it would take me this long to find the holster a proper mate. I recently found a candidate and asked friend somd_mustangs for his opinion. It was a late war Second Alphabet series with A prefix SN which put production in April '45. With somd_mustangs approval in hand I decided to make a strong play for it. I had to put on my big boy collector pants and pay market value, which goes against my bargain hunter instincts but sometimes you do what you gotta do. And this was such a solid example that I had to step up in order to get it.
    -She showed up tonight and other than some very light edge wear in a few spots it's pristine and numbers matching. Has all the features of a late production Spreewerke including the cvq manuf. code.
    -The holster has little wear and you can see the mark on the inside of the flap where a P38 frame tang snuggled. Some of the rough features of this holster didn't surprise me considering when it was assembled. Stuff like the belt loops being made of two different thickness pieces of leather and the flap latch appearing to come from a Hi Power holster. Very much cobbled together but functional, the P38 fits it like a glove.
     

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    mawkie

    C&R Whisperer
    Sep 28, 2007
    4,353
    Catonsville
    Holster photos...
     

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    Jul 1, 2012
    5,733
    She does look very nice indeed!
    How's the inside look, lock block etc?

    The P38 Spreewerk book by Balcar and Clarin has a detailed analysis supporting the broken "cvq" die theory (e.g. it's not a unique code, just a busted tail on the Y). The new Krutzek P38 book presents an alternate theory that it was a new code assigned at the end of the war, which isn't plausible as the Germans had moved well beyond the "c" codes by the end of the war (for instance Mauser changed from BYF to SVW in 1945). But I digress...
    Both are excellent reference books BTW.

    An interesting holster.
    I can't find any examples of a pebble-grain gxy 1944; the "mis-matched" belt loops and odd closure strap are unusual as is the marking gxy over 1944 instead of "gxy 1944". Stitching on the belt loop and the closure strap is different than you typically see on a gxy but it looks original and old, no stray holes.
    I can't make out the Waffenamt, should be WaA706.
    Anyway worth posting on the P38 forum in the holster section.
     

    mawkie

    C&R Whisperer
    Sep 28, 2007
    4,353
    Catonsville
    Pulled it apart last night and locking block does indeed match, as the seller confirmed for me. Seller's photos were VG but it looks even better in the flesh.
    The speculation about code change doesn't make much sense to me either, esp. when you see the cyq code on this barrel. Why didn't that change to cvq? Broken die and wartime pressures combine to make much more sense IMHO.
    Can't make out the holster's inspection code, even under a lope. The few repops of pebble grain holsters I've found don't look anything like this one, usually are deeply marked. All the original pebble grain holsters I've seen have markings much more shallow. This one is definitely old from the stitching to the smell. But you're right, when I first got it I scoured the 'net for comps and came up empty. Did the same this week and again, nothing. Odd for sure.
     

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    mawkie

    C&R Whisperer
    Sep 28, 2007
    4,353
    Catonsville
    Really nice set Mawkie, are the milling marks on the slide a characteristic of late war?

    Yes. Spreewerke built P38s are commonly found with milling marks. Only the very early examples were built with a near commercial finish. Those are very difficult to find.
     
    Jul 1, 2012
    5,733
    The lock block looks perfect.
    Spreewerk was the only one that lightly blued the block like this.
    When people "clean them up" they don't realize that, and wipe out the original bluing on the block.
    The factory hit the bottom of the block with file/grinder when fitting the barrel assembly to the frame,
    so you want to see that spot of bare metal like this.

    Walther and Mauser blocks are "in the white" (late dual-tone Mauser used a light phosphate wash).

    Spreewerk P.38's are interesting as they can vary from very nice fitment and minimal machining marks, to a total mess but still "in spec".
    It's a game to find one with the most rejection asterisk marks on parts that had to be reworked to pass inspection.
    The machining styles on the slide changed over time too.

    I'm not writing that holster off, I think it's unusual enough to warrant examination by an expert.
     

    Melnic

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    15,351
    HoCo
    Yes. Spreewerke built P38s are commonly found with milling marks. Only the very early examples were built with a near commercial finish. Those are very difficult to find.

    I have come across several where the owner had it smoothed out then blued the slide thus decreasing its value. One I saw locally was a bring back with the holster and the grandson still had some of the 9mm Nazi ammo.
     

    mawkie

    C&R Whisperer
    Sep 28, 2007
    4,353
    Catonsville
    somd_mustangs was kind enough to post this thread to an advanced collector's forum and the question of the holster is answered that it's not genuine. The age was always throwing me a loop and I like his theory that it's an old 50's vintage East German holster that someone stamped with fake makers and inspection marks. Shame as it would have had a decent value if it had been left alone. Now OCD me must start a search for a worthy holster with provenance. Doubt that it'll take a dozen years! MACA show is on the horizon, might be a source as I've had good luck with hard-to-find holsters there before.
     

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