Bushmaster XM15-E2S - Legal?

Threeband · Mar 25, 2018

80%?

That's not the point.

This has nothing to do with secret, off record guns.

It has to do with buying and selling perfectly legal rifles of a certain brand name which are being improperly, knowingly, and extra-legally treated as "banned " in defiance of MSPs own precedent and knowledge.

The OP was interested in a particular target rifle. Another poster has two target rifles he can't sell. He may still have the paperwork proving they were sold as unregulated.

This has nothing to do with 80% builds!

5.56blaster · Mar 25, 2018

It's banned because everyone knows that bullets from a Bushmaster are more badder than from anything else! Maryland gun laws, boy Howdy! I hate Maryland!

IronEye · Mar 25, 2018

It has the same name as some other too shoot-y gun that shoots too hurt-y bullets. Very scary. That's the very technical reason for the ban. Got it? Me either.

Threeband · Mar 25, 2018

It isn't banned at all, not legally, not according to the thousands of Bushmaster HBARs sold over the preceding 20 years.

That's the point.

Are people even READING this thread? Or just posting irrelevancies?

Mr.Blue · Mar 30, 2018

I believe the Bushmaster AR was used at Sandy Hook. Coupled with the DC sniper incident and Bushmaster became a scary word to the Libs.

ironpony · Mar 30, 2018

So, banned? Sorry I cannot reed.

Melnic · Mar 30, 2018

I agree with everything threeband is saying. The law as written was ambiguous. If you look at the list, you will see most of them show the manufacturer and the model number.
Because they did not write up Gwinn Firearms Bushmaster, all this confusion happened.

Bushmaster pistol (I think I have this one correct)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushmaster_Arm_Pistol

Bushmaster Rifle:
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...master-field-strip-original-bushmaster-rifle/

Bushmaster (company) sells a copy of the Colt HBAR. that is what Threeband speaks of being sold cash and carry. I have seen these sold cash and carry before and after the oct 1 2013 law came into effect.

We can be right all we want but if the FFL does not agree, they won't sell or tranfer it.

ironpony said:
So, banned? Sorry I cannot reed.

IANAL but I say not banned by the law, MSP saying its banned, not only is it banned but according to MSP, all bushmaster brand rifles would be banned

Threeband · Mar 30, 2018

And MSP has always understood perfectly that "Bushmaster " was a specific model of rifle manufactured in limited quantities long, long ago... back when the List was drawn up...

(You realize the List of banned guns was drawn up in California 30 thirty THIRTY years ago, right?)

... THIRTY YEARS AGO before there even was such a thing as a Bushmaster Brand AR15 .

And the Maryland State Police (MSP) has always understood perfectly well that the name Bushmaster on that THIRTY year old List had nothing to do with any brand name or any AR rifle.

The deliberate misinterpretation started after FSA2013 went into effect. I think they started deliberately violating the law in early 2014, about the time they started illegaly requiring HQL trainees to fire one shot, in defiance of the actual law.

I just believe somebody put some pressure on the MSP, or made a friendly suggestion about a desireable reinterpretation of the law. I detect spite and malevolence in the action.

yakfish · Mar 30, 2018

Threeband said:
It isn't banned at all, not legally, not according to the thousands of Bushmaster HBARs sold over the preceding 20 years.

That's the point.

Are people even READING this thread? Or just posting irrelevancies?

I own several Bushy HBAR XM15E2's and all were C & C, most were purchased between '04 and '09.

Threeband · Mar 31, 2018

yakfish said:
I own several Bushy HBAR XM15E2's and all were C & C, most were purchased between '04 and '09.

Quoted for truth.

Do you still have your cash and carry paperwork, by any chance?

There are probably thousands of those in Maryland.

Jokes on the MSP, though.

Not a single one of those Bushmaster HBARs is in their registration database.

fidelity · Mar 31, 2018

Mr.Blue said:
I believe the Bushmaster AR was used at Sandy Hook. Coupled with the DC sniper incident and Bushmaster became a scary word to the Libs.

Yes, a Bushmaster AR-15 was used by Adam Lanza in Newtown (taken from his mother after killing her), which was the shooting that really precipitated FSA 2013. I would bet the prejudice in adding the Bushmaster HBAR to the State Police ban list was a direct result of an AR from the same company being used in the killing. Otherwise this error would have been fixed immediately as HBARs from other AR manufacturers are not restricted for sale (including Windham, an offshoot of Bushmaster).

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

Alea Jacta Est · Mar 31, 2018

Where's MOPAR???

Wasn't he the self proclaimed Bushmaster you speak of?

rog951 · Mar 31, 2018

fidelity said:
Yes, a Bushmaster AR-15 was used by Adam Lanza in Newtown (taken from his mother after killing her), which was the shooting that really precipitated FSA 2013. I would bet the prejudice in adding the Bushmaster HBAR to the State Police ban list was a direct result of an AR from the same company being used in the killing. Otherwise this error would have been fixed immediately as HBARs from other AR manufacturers are not restricted for sale (including Windham, an offshoot of Bushmaster).

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

And the anti-gun folks always try to dismiss the "slippery slope" argument. This Bushmaster AR scenario in Maryland seems to be a great example.

k9guy · Mar 31, 2018

What about purchasing a Buschmaster stripped lower??

10xclean · Mar 31, 2018

if you really want a bushmaster dcm upper... I have a new one. mate it with a lower and it is 100% MD legal as an HBAR. Only bushmaster lower banned, not upper parts.

Threeband · Mar 31, 2018

fidelity said:
... I would bet the prejudice in adding the Bushmaster HBAR to the State Police ban list was a direct result of an AR from the same company being used in the killing. Otherwise this error would have been fixed immediately as HBARs from other AR manufacturers are not restricted for sale (including Windham, an offshoot of Bushmaster).

...

They never "added the Bushmaster brand AR15 HBAR to the banned List."

The 1988 California Ban List used by many states, including ours, has not changed since it was updated for the Federal Ban of 1995, many years before the "DC Snipers" or Sandy Hook.

It cannot be changed without an act of the Legislature. The Maryland State Police absolutely have no legal authority to change it, and indeed they have not.

They just started pretending that the rifle on the List had always been a particular brand of AR, rather than an entirely different rifle.

They just started pretending that a particular brand of HBAR had always been Regulated/Banned.

They just suddenly in 2014, a year after FSA2013 and more than a year after Sandy Hook, started pretending that Bushmaster HBARs had not always been cash and carry, because of course they have never been regulated or banned.

They did not add to the List. They did not change the List.

They just started pretending the List had always said something they knew perfectly well it never said.

They started pretending the List banned a particular rifle which did not even exist when the List was written in 1988.

I wonder WHO was behind this extra-legal manipulation. Who gave the order?

I really doubt it had much to do with Sandy Hook, unless perhaps in the mind of some twisted individual.
But who was that individual who suddenly conceived this animus against a particular brand of rifle?

Was it indeed someone who understood perfectly well what "Bushmaster " meant, but who harbored some obscure, nasty spitefull desire to mess with people in any petty little way possible?

Or was it some hysterical ignorant zealot who somehow had the influence to pressure the MSP into extra-legally violating 20 years of their own precedent?

Threeband · Mar 31, 2018

If your Bushmaster HBAR is now banned, you might as well put a banned upper on it, and put the HBAR upper on a newer build.

Threeband · Mar 31, 2018

k9guy said:
What about purchasing a Buschmaster stripped lower??

Apparently a Bushmaster brand lower is banned, but a PSA or Aero Precision or Anderson or any other lower is not.

That's my guess.

What really pisses me off is the extra-legality and the apparently vindictive malevolence of it. There seems to be no other purpose than a petty desire to be nasty for no reason.

rog951 · Mar 31, 2018

Threeband said:
If your Bushmaster HBAR is now banned, you might as well put a banned upper on it, and put the HBAR upper on a newer build.

Hahaha, well, I don't think the lowers would be banned, just not able to be transferred in Maryland anymore. Not saying it's right, just not wanting to over-state it. If you bought your Bushmaster legally, you oughta still be able to possess and use it as before. Put an "illegal" upper on it and some busybody sees it at the range or something, you risk losing even more of your freedom!

Threeband · Mar 31, 2018

No, the MSP is extra-legally treating it as banned just like your AK47, but you can still possess it and use it, because it's grandfathered. You just can't transfer it.

It's a classification. They are pretending that they believe all Bushmaster brand products fall under the "banned" classification, even though they know perfectly well they do not.

They are bald-facedly lying about their own understanding of the law.

Who told them to lie?

Bushmaster XM15-E2S - Legal?

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