WWSD Rifle

teratos · Nov 23, 2019

This looks interesting. What Would Stoner Do?
https://www.brownells.com/WWSD

Alan3413 · Nov 23, 2019

Phased plasma rifle.

Threeband · Nov 24, 2019

teratos said:
This looks interesting. What Would Stoner Do?
https://www.brownells.com/WWSD

I thought it sounded interesting, too.

This first video is the three minute teaser from Ian at Forgotten Weapons:

Second video is more in depth.

Unfortunately it will not be available here in the People's Utopia, unless you build it with an HBAR, which would nullify the concept. Still, the lower itself sounds interesting, and perhaps you could seriously flute your heavy barrel...

jcutonilli · Nov 25, 2019

Threeband said:
I thought it sounded interesting, too.

Unfortunately it will not be available here in the People's Utopia, unless you build it with an HBAR, which would nullify the concept. Still, the lower itself sounds interesting, and perhaps you could seriously flute your heavy barrel...

It depends on how you interpret the law. You could argue that it is not a copy because of both the material and the fact that the stock and pistol grip are integral to the receiver. If changes because of caliber make a rifle not a copy why wouldn't a non copy of the receiver be any different? The receiver is the key part in determining if it is a copy

Threeband · Nov 25, 2019

I like the cut of your jib.

Allen65 · Nov 25, 2019

jcutonilli said:
It depends on how you interpret the law. You could argue that it is not a copy because of both the material and the fact that the stock and pistol grip are integral to the receiver. If changes because of caliber make a rifle not a copy why wouldn't a non copy of the receiver be any different? The receiver is the key part in determining if it is a copy

You could argue that, but you might be making your argument from behind the defense table in a courtroom. I wouldn't want to stake my freedom on a MD judge applying Rule of Lenity to something firearms related, assuming that's even within a judge's discretion in this state..

jcutonilli · Nov 25, 2019

Allen65 said:
You could argue that, but you might be making your argument from behind the defense table in a courtroom. I wouldn't want to stake my freedom on a MD judge applying Rule of Lenity to something firearms related, assuming that's even within a judge's discretion in this state..

What is the basis of your claim? You would not be relying solely on the Rule of Lenity. The law gets very specific about particular models and their copies. How much different does something have to be to not be considered a copy?

jrumann59 · Nov 25, 2019

jcutonilli said:
What is the basis of your claim? You would not be relying solely on the Rule of Lenity. The law gets very specific about particular models and their copies. How much different does something have to be to not be considered a copy?

It sounds like the guts remain the same and can transfer over to a regular AR. A 1 piece lower with integrated stock and grip will only help pass copycat test.

smokey · Nov 25, 2019

I wonder if someone can convince them to make a WWSD pistol with a integral hook-style brace? It seems like it would be silly easy to design one like that.

1841DNG · Nov 25, 2019

I am excited though I assume they will use a pencil barrel in the full build so we can only get the lowers.

Bob A · Nov 25, 2019

jcutonilli said:
How much different does something have to be to not be considered a copy?

Ask MSP, it's their list.

I'd advise asking at least 5 different troopers, and averaging the answers - it's certain they'd all be different.

jcutonilli · Nov 25, 2019

Bob A said:
Ask MSP, it's their list.

I'd advise asking at least 5 different troopers, and averaging the answers - it's certain they'd all be different.

I am not sure they still have the list on the website. I tried searching on the MSP website but could not find anything on that issue.

smokey · Nov 25, 2019

smokey0118 said:
I wonder if someone can convince them to make a WWSD pistol with a integral hook-style brace? It seems like it would be silly easy to design one like that.

Welp, so much for that...

Pinecone · Nov 26, 2019

jcutonilli said:
I am not sure they still have the list on the website. I tried searching on the MSP website but could not find anything on that issue.

This list - https://mdsp.maryland.gov/Organizat...LicensingDivision/Firearms/FirearmSearch.aspx

Your search skills suck.

Pinecone · Nov 26, 2019

jcutonilli said:
What is the basis of your claim? You would not be relying solely on the Rule of Lenity. The law gets very specific about particular models and their copies. How much different does something have to be to not be considered a copy?

The AG published a letter, can be found here on MDS about "copies." It is also stated on the MSP firearms list.

To that end, the Maryland State Police has determined that, for enforcement purposes, a firearm is considered a copy if it is both cosmetically similar to and has completely interchangeable internal components necessary for the full operation and function of one of the enumerated banned weapons.

If any one part is not interchangeable between the two, it is NOT a copy.

Pinecone · Nov 26, 2019

jrumann59 said:
A 1 piece lower with integrated stock and grip will only help pass copycat test.

And how do you figure that?

Copycat is the semi auto, center fire rifle. Minimum of 29" overall length and no more than one evil feature.

kdmag88 · Nov 26, 2019

The receiver is 2 molded halves plastic welded together. I don't see how they can't sell each half separately as a 50%. I doubt they will though...

lazarus · Nov 26, 2019

kdmag88 said:
The receiver is 2 molded halves plastic welded together. I don't see how they can't sell each half separately as a 50%. I doubt they will though...

Yeah, you aren’t going to be able to weld them together. Plastic welding takes very specialized equipment.

The upside is it means we get “CAV-15 MkIII” lowers. Those are sure MD legal. I love my MkII lowers and will get a MkIII once they are available. Especially with the tweaks they are talking about.

jcutonilli · Nov 26, 2019

Pinecone said:
The AG published a letter, can be found here on MDS about "copies." It is also stated on the MSP firearms list.

If any one part is not interchangeable between the two, it is NOT a copy.

How do you interchange the AR buffer tube? It is certainly required for the operation of an AR, but the CAV Arms lower cannot accept that particular part. The stock and pistol grip are also distinguishing characteristics and needed for the full operation. They are not interchangeable either.

I would again ask if the Cav Arms lower truly a copy?

lazarus · Nov 26, 2019

jcutonilli said:
How do you interchange the AR buffer tube? It is certainly required for the operation of an AR, but the CAV Arms lower cannot accept that particular part. The stock and pistol grip are also distinguishing characteristics and needed for the full operation. They are not interchangeable either.

I would again ask if the Cav Arms lower truly a copy?

Yes. Based on logical definition of interchanging, you can take all of the parts off a functional AR-15 needed to make a CAV arms lower receiver in to a fully functional rifle. It’ll interchange and work. This isn’t like the barrel is different. Or bolt won’t fit. It has an integral buffer tube...so you don’t need an AR-15 buffer tube for it to function.

You’d be hard pressed to find a jury that couldn’t be pretty easily convinced by a DA that it isn’t a copy if you built a non-HBAR. But if you want to test those waters, go ahead.

This isn’t like a Polytech 14 and and M1A where the one uses metric and one uses imperial units parts where almost nothing is compatible, but they are functionally identical (but most can’t interchange). Or a piston AR where the gas systems are radically different and swapping a part between them doesn’t result in a working rifle.

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