I'm slow and don't realize it

jimbobborg · May 29, 2019

I've been shooting some kind of action shooting sports for 10 years now. My delimma in shooting pistol in action shooting is I'm suddenly unable to perceive time once the timer starts. While I'm shooting, it feels like I'm doing good time wise, but my actual times are telling me I'm poking along. What I think is taking me 30 seconds is taking me 50+ seconds. I'm not sure how to rectify this. Any pointers or suggestions?

MacGuns · May 29, 2019

For me, once that start timer beeps I drop 20 IQ points.

I think it is just a matter of more practice and reviewing mistakes. Take one of your mistakes and work on that during practice. Once you have that down, move onto the next mistake. For example, for PRS I use 10 or 12 round magazines. I used to forget about doing a pre-emptive reloads when transitioning between props. I practiced that for some time until it is now ingrained. That saved me a ton of time so I wouldn't par out on some stages.

outrider58 · May 29, 2019

I'm not a competitive shooter, but common sense tells us the shot is a millisecond, everything you do between shots is what eats up time. Like MacMoov said, work on your transitions.

BlueHeeler · May 29, 2019

Can you record your runs with a GoPro or something?

Or ask a fast competitor to observe your technique?

davsco · May 29, 2019

jimbobborg said:
What I think is taking me 30 seconds is taking me 50+ seconds. I'm not sure how to rectify this. Any pointers or suggestions?

you just have to be on a target kill mission. it's a mindset vs casual plinking.

when the front site is on target, blast it vs waiting for it to be dead center. have a game plan, what are you going to shoot and from where, zero surprises during the stage. no flat-footed or slidelock reloads, plan where and when. no extra steps, no extra shooting positions, every start and stop takes time. if you can blast a bunch of targets from the start position, do that vs taking 3 steps, stopping, and then blasting them. solid trigger control and shooting fundamentals, square to target, pressed out, good grip. don't get sucked into ports and between walls because then you spend time pulling back out. keep your gun pointed at target level because that's where the targets are, not at your feet or up in the sky, less time moving the gun up and down. missing doubles, or worse, your time on each target, so make sure your gun & ammo choices are accurate (and reliable) and again trigger control and basic shooting stance fundamentals. think 'tank turret' at each target array, plant yourself and then just left to right or right to left, no re-positioning between each shot.

i wouldn't worry about time, per se, just do all you can to eliminate wasted / inefficient time, keeping in mind some of the stuff above. i never try to shoot a stage in a certain amount of time, nor can i guess how long a stage will or should take. i just try to be as efficient and mission-sensitive as i can be and the time will be the time.

all easier said then done, especially when that buzzer goes off.

you're more than welcome to squad with me at kahr or any other matches, sure my crew can give you some good feedback. or just ask others in your squads to give you some feedback after each of your runs.

alucard0822 · May 29, 2019

As others have said use a gopro or cell camera with a buddy to film your performance, it's a great tool to critique your run and see what you need to work on.

Break your run down into types of movements, and see where you are loosing time.
Actual fixed shooting-standing there shooting at targets, your cadence and balancing points down vs speed can help you see if you need to speed up transitions, slow down and make better hits, or work on decreasing split times. This can also help you see if you need to work on strategies for things like texas stars and plate racks.

Movement and footwork- moving between target groups and barriers, should be jumping out of a position, running to another, and getting ready to shoot soon as you get there, sometimes it's faster to load while moving, sometimes it's better just to flat out run.

weapon administration- reloading, keeping track of ammo remaining, loading enough so you don't run out, but not so much you are wasting time, pulling weapons, bunkering them, transitioning from sling to firing position, snapping from ready to shouldered etc. This can be GREATLY improved through dryfire practice and loading dummy rounds(especially 3 gun shotgun).

Stage strategy and planning- leaving targets, shooting the same group of targets twice, shooting out of order, or making more work for yourself with extra steps, it can be tough, but you can usually watch others in your group to see if they have a better plan. You can also work to find your strengths and weaknesses, if you are good with a pistol, might be better to go after targets with a pistol option instead of pulling or reloading something else.

The main thing is a solid plan where you are always doing something to finish the stage, working on shooting faster, and breaking down a stage into a "dance", add in good gear, lots of practice, and lots of matches, and you will keep moving up the scoresheet.

gwchem · May 29, 2019

The lessons I've taken from GM level uspsa shooters have focused 3/4 of the time on draw, movement, planning movement and lastly target/array transisions. What does that tell you?

Bikebreath · May 29, 2019

I've been like that my entire 8 years of action shooting. I've had videos, (thank you and you know who you are) taken by friends and I'm so pathetic. I don't have any offers of help, just to lay out my sins for all to see. :lol2:

photoracer · May 29, 2019

What Dave says. If you decide how to shoot the stage and do it then time will take care of itself. Don't think during the stage just do it. Once the buzzer goes off all thinking should have been already done. You see the targets and just shoot them. Muscle memory can take care of problems so you need to practice those drills also. If transitions are one of your problems, shoot some Steel Challenge. That was originally a practice for USPSA/IPSC before it became its own shooting sport. One of the bigtime pros once told me everything you need to learn about how to shoot USPSA fast can be learned shooting Steel Challenge.
The non-shooting stuff like stage planning, movement, and mag changes is what you add to that and those are mental and physical training, and drills.

jimbobborg · May 29, 2019

Thanks all. Larry mentioned to me, right before a Kahr stage, that it looks like I have no plan and am just winging it. Which I was for most of the stages that day because I'm having a hard time moving my stuff between stages and miss the walk through. And when I do have a stage plan, I follow about 50% of it, so that leaves me shooting out of position for big clusters of targets. I'm working on that part.

I think another problem I'm having is getting to the end of the match without intaking enough calories, so I'm dragging and forgetting targets. So I'm not hustling to the next part, and even when I do, I have to go back because I missed a piece of steel. I need some video editing software that makes sense, unlike the software that came with my GoPros. Here's one that I could have shaved off a lot of time just by better planning and reloading and being aware of time.

Bikebreath · May 30, 2019

I run out of steam toward the end of a match. Depending on the venue, I’ll take a PB&J, or use power gels. With power gels it’s best to drink about 6oz. of water to help them get in your system. They are a carry-over from my mountain biking days.

A lot of different companies make power gels https://www.amazon.com/power-gel/s?k=power+gel

BigT5g · May 30, 2019

I wouldn't focus on doing anything faster. Instead try to find ways to do things more efficiently and sooner. There is a difference. Once you are efficient then you can experiment with doing those efficient things faster to find your ultimate level of performance.

Racinready300ex · May 30, 2019

Watching your video, I see lots of make up shots on steel. So cleaning up some marksmanship fundamentals would of improved that run a lot. 1-1 on steel makes a massive difference. At one point you tried to shoot what looked like fairly hard shots on the move and ended up needing to stop to get the hits. Learn you limits in practice, so you don't over estimate yourself on match day. The other thing I see is when you were moving and not shooting like around the 45 second mark. Looked like you were looking for steel to fall and casually moved to final position. That movement could of been more aggressive.

rambling_one · May 30, 2019

I'd be even worse. Tried an IDPA intro match some years ago. Besides being slow, I had a hard time remembering the various commands...felt like a ninny. Never tried it again. I've reconciled to being a static shooter. Fixed position and fixed target, stop to count the holes, reach for a sip of coffee and repeat. Such is life.

Racinready300ex · May 30, 2019

rambling_one said:
I'd be even worse. Tried an IDPA intro match some years ago. Besides being slow, I had a hard time remembering the various commands...felt like a ninny. Never tried it again. I've reconciled to being a static shooter. Fixed position and fixed target, stop to count the holes, reach for a sip of coffee and repeat. Such is life.

It's really not that hard, but when you're not used to it and it feels like everyone is watching you suddenly simple task seems difficult. I'd recommend trying it again, maybe watch some video's on youtube and pay more attention to the commands and such then the shooting. That might help you get comfortable and more familiar with the commands and what you're supposed to do.

And keep in mind, no one is really watching you, so don't put to much pressure on yourself.

photoracer · May 30, 2019

Everything can be fixed by doing it again and again. Its a good thing to practice the commands and moves in things like IDPA. Not so many rules in USPSA but they are different shooting sports with different goals. Nobody starts out shooting well as a new shooter.

Pinecone · May 31, 2019

1) Practice smooth. Smooth is fast.

2) Take a class from a top level action shooting. Many years ago I did 3 days with Ron Avery. Did AMAZING things to my shooting.

HoCoShooter · May 31, 2019

jimbobborg said:
I've been shooting some kind of action shooting sports for 10 years now. My delimma in shooting pistol in action shooting is I'm suddenly unable to perceive time once the timer starts. While I'm shooting, it feels like I'm doing good time wise, but my actual times are telling me I'm poking along. What I think is taking me 30 seconds is taking me 50+ seconds. I'm not sure how to rectify this. Any pointers or suggestions?

I'm kind of in the same boat, Jim - I started last Summer and am still learning everything. Trying to go fast causes me to reinforce bad habits - I'll miss a target and then worry about needing to make up the time, etc. I tend to stop using the sight picture and start lowering the pistol sometimes also, which of course just makes everything worse. Also had 3 DQ's which SUCK, but I learned from every one. My original plan was to shoot at least a match a month, I am currently doing 3-5 a month on average. I am not doing hardly ANY live fire practice lately and I know I need to add that to my schedule ASAP.

I also always feel like I'm going 100 mph, but watching a video proves otherwise. :innocent0

My times are usually 2-3x the time of the match winners. Some folks shoot and win a match their first time out, some folks classify as an A their first time. I will never be one of those people, but I do think I can continue to improve for quite some time if I keep the practice up (I'm 48).

I started dry firing every weekday morning a couple months ago. I set up half and third scale targets in my house and am running drills in "Repetition and Refinement" by Steve Anderson. Basic things like turning, drawing, grip, start positions, etc. are becoming more natural so a few things that I need to worry about / focus on less.

As far as the food, do you use a cart? I just pack a small lunch, put a cooler in my range cart and eat when I get hungry. Or leave a cooler in your car and grab something from it in-between stages, etc. And start hydrating at least a day before a match.

Lastly, for the folks on the fence, take David's advice and just go to a match. Be safe and have fun, you'll absolutely love it no matter what your skill level is.

Pinecone said:
1) Practice smooth. Smooth is fast.

2) Take a class from a top level action shooting. Many years ago I did 3 days with Ron Avery. Did AMAZING things to my shooting.

I hadn't heard of him, looks like he passed in February. Where did / do you recommend looking for action pistol coaches, just asking friends or at matches?

Racinready300ex · May 31, 2019

HoCoShooter said:
I'm kind of in the same boat, Jim - I started last Summer and am still learning everything. Trying to go fast causes me to reinforce bad habits - I'll miss a target and then worry about needing to make up the time, etc. I tend to stop using the sight picture and start lowering the pistol sometimes also, which of course just makes everything worse. Also had 3 DQ's which SUCK, but I learned from every one. My original plan was to shoot at least a match a month, I am currently doing 3-5 a month on average. I am not doing hardly ANY live fire practice lately and I know I need to add that to my schedule ASAP.

I also always feel like I'm going 100 mph, but watching a video proves otherwise. My times are usually 2-3x the time of the match winners. Some folks shoot and win a match their first time out, some folks classify as an A their first time. I will never be one of those people, but I do think I can continue to improve for quite some time if I keep the practice up (I'm 48).

I started dry firing every weekday morning a couple months ago. I set up half and third scale targets in my house and am running drills in "Repetition and Refinement" by Steve Anderson. Basic things like turning, drawing, grip, start positions, etc. are becoming more natural so a few things that I need to worry about / focus on less.

As far as the food, do you use a cart? I just pack a small lunch, put a cooler in my range cart and eat when I get hungry. Or leave a cooler in your car and grab something from it in-between stages, etc. And start hydrating at least a day before a match.

Lastly, for the folks on the fence, take David's advice and just go to a match. Be safe and have fun, you'll absolutely love it no matter what your skill level is.

I hadn't heard of him, looks like he passed in February. Where did / do you recommend looking for action pistol coaches, just asking friends or at matches?

Typically if you feel like you're going 100 mph that just means you're rushing, or pushing yourself to go fast. It doesn't necessarily mean it will be fast, in fact most of the time rushing will lead to mistakes which could mean your time suffers or your hits suffer.

You should rush and push in practice, gain speed there. Then on match day you try to just shoot. If you do it right it might feel slow, you'll think the timer is lying to you.

Occam · May 31, 2019

So far, my match goals are:

1) Get there early so I'm not Late Guy
2) Leave with all or at least most of my blood still inside me
3) Nobody gets mad at me
4) Somebody says, "Hey, that was a lot better than your last run."
5) Don't feel the need for another gun

Doing 100% on 1 through 4.

I'm slow and don't realize it

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