AR Forward Assist

DaemonAssassin · Oct 6, 2014

I never had a problem with an AR, until I shot Wolf ammo through it. At that point, I was happy to have the FA, so I could get the bolt forward enough to pull the upper off of the lower. The FA is there for a reason. Love it or hate it, you will need to use it one day.

TheBert · Oct 6, 2014

iH8DemLibz said:
Not needed if you keep your firearm clean and use clean ammo.

If you want a really good looking AR, find one that doesn't have any of that stuff on it.

I built a 300BLK using a DPMS upper without an assist or port cover.

You should check them out.

They said that back in '64, it wasn't true then and it isn't true now.

Vile Shadow · Oct 6, 2014

When was the FA introduced?

BradMacc82 · Oct 6, 2014

Sling Blade said:
When was the FA introduced?

Early days of Vietnam, IIRC.

Thanks to a variety of things - diff't powder in ammo, cleaning kits not being issued, and non-gun designers deciding that chrome-lining the bore and chamber (as Stoner intended) were unnecessary and added to the cost of each rifle.

clandestine · Oct 6, 2014

Im of the opinion that chrome bolts and carriers are an improvement too but they are not used except for high end manufactured AR's.

iH8DemLibz · Oct 6, 2014

TheBert said:
They said that back in '64, it wasn't true then and it isn't true now.

Horse Crap.

I and many others on this site have been shooting AR15s longer than some on here have been alive.

Thousands of rounds fired and I've NEVER had to use the forward assist.

I'm talking about people here in The United States of America who shoot 100 rounds of commercial ammo and then put the gun away.

I'm not talking about an Afghanistan Wannbe Wetdreamer who's trekking across a barren desert while weathering a sand storm while imaginary bullets are whizzing over his head.

Under those conditions, a forward assist may come in handy to help the bolt rotate that last little bit and lock up.

Once again, another MDS thread that got turned into horseburger.

And so there's not a total dust up. I agree with the blown primer scenario.

Vile Shadow · Oct 6, 2014

clandestine said:
Im of the opinion that chrome bolts and carriers are an improvement too but they are not used except for high end manufactured AR's.

Are those that much more expensive?

clandestine · Oct 6, 2014

iH8DemLibz said:
Horse Crap.

I and many others on this site have been shooting AR15s longer than some on here have been alive.

Thousands of rounds fired and I've NEVER had to use the forward assist.

I'm talking about people here in The United States of America who shoot 100 rounds of commercial ammo and then put the gun away.

I'm not talking about an Afghanistan Wannbe Wetdreamer who's trekking across a barren desert while weathering a sand storm while imaginary bullets are whizzing over his head.

Under those conditions, a forward assist may come in handy to help the bolt rotate that last little bit and lock up.

Once again, another MDS thread that got turned into horseburger.

And so there's not a total dust up. I agree with the blown primer scenario.

You didn't ask the audience. You assumed the O.P.'s use was for paper punching alone without considering that the weapon may be for home defense, being taken to a class, or is being used by a police officer for a trunk carbine.

If you think horseburger is seeing someone post experience on a professional level and facts then too bad.

Many of the people I do work for are those types.

clandestine · Oct 6, 2014

Sling Blade said:
Are those that much more expensive?

From a cost per unit standpoint probably, when it comes to the U.S. Govt for a basic issue rifle.

Realistically they often cost about $100.00 over a GOOD Milspec Phosphate Bolt.

FWIW, poor plating and embrittlement of the steel on sub-par models is one of the big reasons chrome Bolt Groups get a not so warm welcome.

SCARCQB · Oct 6, 2014

It's good to have and not need it.

Most of the time, the forward assist is needed in damp, wet or humid environments. Using the Ar / m16 in these places were the only instances where I've had to use the forward assist. ( bolt, carrier and barrel extension can actually corrode or gum up)

iH8DemLibz · Oct 6, 2014

clandestine said:
You didn't ask the audience. You assumed the O.P.'s use was for paper punching alone without considering that the weapon may be for home defense, being taken to a class, or is being used by a police officer for a trunk carbine.

If you think horseburger is seeing someone post experience on a professional level and facts then too bad.

Many of the people I do work for are those types.

Not a personal attack on you. Again.

You know a lot about firearms and the AR15 specifically.

I'm tired of the folks who bought their first AR last year and think they are the be all and end all of AR conversations. Better yet, the ones who buy a pile of parts thinking they're Lincoln Logs and you just stack one part on top of the other part. Then wonder why the damn thing doesn't work.

I will ask that you let others who actually do know something about firearms weigh in sometimes without them getting reamed and called no-nothings.

Have a nice evening. I'm going back to my pizza.

clandestine · Oct 6, 2014

iH8DemLibz said:
Not a personal attack on you. Again.

You know a lot about firearms and the AR15 specifically.

I'm tired of the folks who bought their first AR last year and think they are the be all and end all of AR conversations. Better yet, the ones who buy a pile of parts thinking they're Lincoln Logs and you just stack one part on top of the other part. Then wonder why the damn thing doesn't work.

I will ask that you let others who actually do know something about firearms weigh in sometimes without them getting reamed and called no-nothings.

Have a nice evening. I'm going back to my pizza.

I do let people post about technical stuff. When I see stuff about AR's specifically that is incorrect, dangerous, or just bad advice I often correct it.

Soul Rebel · Oct 6, 2014

don't know anyone who has ever used their FA. the dude from LWRC started a new company and none of his new rifles will have the FA. i don't think he builds range toys.

SCARCQB · Oct 6, 2014

If it has not been in combat. It's a range toy

vinjet700 · Oct 6, 2014

clandestine said:
From a cost per unit standpoint probably, when it comes to the U.S. Govt for a basic issue rifle.

Realistically they often cost about $100.00 over a GOOD Milspec Phosphate Bolt.

FWIW, poor plating and embrittlement of the steel on sub-par models is one of the big reasons chrome Bolt Groups get a not so warm welcome.

You really got me thinking about the smooth side I bought???

BradMacc82 · Oct 6, 2014

SCARCQB said:
If it has not been in combat. It's a range toy

And when the piston manifold breaks due to it being run suppressed, it's a broken range toy.

SCARCQB · Oct 6, 2014

I have a nice billet smooth side upper receiver. Brand new, UN installed. It's an excellent paperweight. But I may build a 22 dedicated upper with it.

clandestine · Oct 6, 2014

Soul Rebel said:
don't know anyone who has ever used their FA. the dude from LWRC started a new company and none of his new rifles will have the FA. i don't think he builds range toys.

Depends on who you know and how much they shoot.

I have had similar arguments in the past about AR features. Lubrication, Pinned Gas Blocks, Dust Covers, Staked Gas Keys, NiB, M4 Ramps, Gassing, Suppressors, Buffers, Bolt Bounce, Shrouded Carriers, Triggers, and so on.

As far as necessary features on fighting rifles/carbines. Knights didn't always Pin their Gas Blocks, till they did. There is a reason for that.

Well see how that works out for the "new" and revolutionary AR's with no Forward Assists. Gas Piston AR's are a solution looking for a problem anyway, so someone omitting a F.A. in a G.P. AR is no surprise to me.

I have always loved how the non adjustable LWRC Piston Spring Seats and Springs self destructed when you add a Suppressor from overgassing. That was supposedly fixed. maybe, just maybe some testing would have observed that.

clandestine · Oct 6, 2014

BradMacc82 said:
And when the piston manifold breaks due to it being run suppressed, it's a broken range toy.

Damn, you beat me.

SCARCQB · Oct 6, 2014

My Mcr does not have a forward assist. It's also piston driven with proprietary parts. It would be mil spec if the military had a need for specs on the particular design
Range toy........

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