Grandfathering for Bump Stocks or Binary Triggers
- Thread starter Maswasnos
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esqappellate
President, MSI
- Feb 12, 2012
- 7,408
There is plenty of precedent that a statutory provision that is legally impossible to comply with is a violation of due process. If so, what that would mean here is that ATF provisions exceptions to the flat ban otherwise imposed by the new law are invalid. That doesn't necessarily invalidate the rest of the provisions in the new law. The question then becomes whether the invalidated portion is "severable" from the rest of the provisions. That's a case by case inquiry with the presumption being in favorable of severability. See, e.g., O. C. Taxpayers For Equal Rights, Inc. v. Mayor and City Council of Ocean City, 280 Md. 585, 375 A.2d 541 (1977). All of this is rather moot if the proposed ATF regulation is put into effect. That is unlikely to happen before Oct. 1, 2018, one way or the other.
Thank you, that is the info I had not seen elsewhere.
esqappellate
President, MSI
- Feb 12, 2012
- 7,408
I have a request. Would everyone out there with a now banned device please join MSI? $25 a year. https://www.marylandshallissue.org/jmain/join And please let me know that you have. Thanks.
Joined. Do I need to let you know elsewhere or can I just tell you here?
Fostech Echo 2 Drop-in Trigger for AR-15 Rifles.
Has nothing to do with writing a letter to the ATF. We knew that this was going to be the case. It's not like the ATF response suddenly made them illegal, the MDGA did.
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Falkus
Dating Scarlett Johansson
To ensure that I am following the stupid laws in maryland.
I can keep anything that i have on my triggers as long it's normal.
No Bump Stocks and Binary Triggers ..
is there anything else that I should be aware. Since I would hate to sell my AR15 and AK (SAR3) but I might sell the AK out of state to fund another rifle.
I can keep anything that i have on my triggers as long it's normal.
No Bump Stocks and Binary Triggers ..
is there anything else that I should be aware. Since I would hate to sell my AR15 and AK (SAR3) but I might sell the AK out of state to fund another rifle.
Well since some folks here who said they were higher up MSI folks told me my money is no longer wanted since my politics aren’t aligned with msi since I won’t drink the re-elected hogan and all the republican reps koolaide. So I haven’t renewed my membership.
I own some of these devices but I won’t join if I have to drink the koolaide.
I don’t vote for antis
iH8DemLibz
When All Else Fails.
Donated to the general MSI Litigation Fund.
Now.....Git'em!!!
Now.....Git'em!!!
DaemonAssassin
Why should we Free BSD?
There are more that haven't renewed, that are sitting idly by, watching the fire burn.
fabsroman
Ultimate Member
Am I the only one that believes the OP will be fine keeping the binary trigger after October 1, 2018. Good Lord people, the statute only requires people to apply. It does NOT require people to obtain approval from the ATF. So, the OP applied and was told that nothing can be done with his application. I should bill people for this stuff, especially since I started a thread about this a month ago.
(B) THIS SECTION DOES NOT APPLY TO THE POSSESSION OF A RAPID FIRE TRIGGER ACTIVATOR BY A PERSON WHO:
(1) POSSESSED THE RAPID FIRE TRIGGER ACTIVATOR BEFORE OCTOBER 1, 2018;
(2) APPLIED TO THE FEDERAL BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO, FIREARMS AND EXPLOSIVES BEFORE OCTOBER 1, 2018, FOR AUTHORIZATION TO POSSESS A RAPID FIRE TRIGGER ACTIVATOR; AND
(3) IS IN COMPLIANCE WITH ALL FEDERAL REQUIREMENTS FOR POSSESSION OF A RAPID FIRE TRIGGER ACTIVATOR.
Show me where the OP would not meet all three prongs of the test for grandfathering. He "applied to the BATFE before October 1, 2018 for authorization to possess a Rapid Fire Trigger Activator", correct? Granted, the ATF responded that the Rapid Fire Trigger Activator does not fall under the NFA and therefore the ATF has nothing to do with it, but approval from the ATF is not required, merely application to the ATF by the OP.
Let's address prong 3, are there any federal requirements for possession of the Rapid Fire Trigger Activator? The ATF's response is that there are none since the item does not fall under the NFA, so the OP is in compliance there to.
My advice would be to flood the ATF with these requests for approval and to keep a copy of the form letter that they will be spending you.
Lastly, even assuming authorization from the ATF was required under the law, laws are usually struck down where it is impossible to comply with the law. How can somebody obtain authorization from the ATF when the ATF cannot give the requisite authorization?
I'll be accepting donations of ammo and brass at the pig roast. lol
fabsroman
Ultimate Member
Yeah, litigating over prong 2 might help those that fail to "apply" before October 1, 2018. One could make the argument that there simply is no application process established by the ATF for a Rapid Fire Trigger Activator that a Maryland resident could possibly follow. Therefore, that prong of the test should be stricken.
My advice, those of you with these Rapid Fire Trigger Activators ("RFTA") send a letter/e-mail to the ATF asking for approval of the RFTA. That way, you can also argue that you did apply for approval. Might make it so the Assistant State's Attorney decides not to make your case a test case for prong 2 of the grandfathering requirements. MSI might need a test case at some point though. Only question is whether you want to be the test subject.
We'll see each other soon enough, and you can explain this to me. I'm an MSI EM, and I certainly have not been encouraging anyone to vote for Hogan after this last legislative session.
As per the thread's topic, I might also be one that owns a soon to be banned device ...
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When a group asks for money but says “44man your not allowed to think for yourself, we must do your thinking for you because we know best” , well that reeks of how the democrats do buisness.
I would no more vote democrat than I would donate to an organization who thinks like them
I would recommend that msi recruit democrats with this way of thinking, they will have better luck and larger numbers since democrats don’t like to think for themselves
Hell I would love to renew and kick in some change for a lawsuit but can’t with msi’s current views, given what they have said to me.
I see how this bill is written, but did you see the loon who sponsored it and explained it to the committee?
When asked about getting approval for triggers and bumpstocks from the atf and being told it wasn’t possible he said well if they can’t get permission then they shouldn’t have them
Now , since his intent was to not allow us permission, my view, I would think that’s a reason for that part of the law to be struck. But permission is what they want us to get even though it’s not possible
Don’t they have to make this pass constitutionality? If so how can it?
iH8DemLibz
When All Else Fails.
I donated through the link that's provided by a certain member each time he welcomes a new person to MDS.
It's not a join/membership link. It's a litigation fund link.
Maybe you could donate that way. Knowing your contribution would go toward funding lawsuits and not Hogan's campaign. This would allow you to fight the grabbers and maintain your principles at the same time.
songlaw
Active Member
Fabsroman, I thought that, too
But I was wrong.
Read post 29, and follow the link to the language if the statute. Basically, own the device beforehand, apply to ATF before 10/2018, AND receive approval before 10/2019. It is not possible to comply.
I am afraid no ammo and brass for you, after all.
But I was wrong.
Read post 29, and follow the link to the language if the statute. Basically, own the device beforehand, apply to ATF before 10/2018, AND receive approval before 10/2019. It is not possible to comply.
I am afraid no ammo and brass for you, after all.
As I said above, its not yet codified in COMAR. MSP and the COMAR approval committee may write entirely different text.
songlaw
Active Member
I am uncertain why you keep referring to COMAR, which is for rules set by regulatory agencies. This is a statute, which is by the legislature. I think MSP has nothing to do with it.
It is a bit difficult on a hand device, so my prior post may have been unclear.
I was replying to Fabsroman’s posts.
esqappellate
President, MSI
- Feb 12, 2012
- 7,408
Ok, I'll bite. I don't recall telling anyone that "we know best" much less that anyone should not think for themselves. Quite to the contrary, we don't tell anyone what to do or not to do. Everyone here knows what MSI does at the General Assembly and in federal court and elsewhere. We appreciate the help and I, as President, am wide open to suggestions. That doesn't mean we will always agree, since complete agreement among all members is not possible, but I always listen respectfully. I prize civility. Indeed, members can run for MSI offices if they want to change the direction of the organization. So, I am completely mystified by these remarks.
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