Real vs. SIRT vs. Blue Guns

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    U

    Uber

    Member
    Mar 20, 2021
    31
    Gaithersburg
    I'm curious to know other's opinions on protocols for real pistols, in contrast with SIRT pistols or mere blue-gun pistols.

    I do dry fire with real pistols (where, "dry fire" = "unloaded") following this protocol:
    • Dry fire in a room with no ammo
    • Dry fire toward a proper backstop (for me, a concrete wall without windows)
    • Verify the gun is clear beforehand and treat the room as if it were a firing line.
    • Trigger discipline--always
    • I do point the gun at objects in the room--objects I don't intend to destroy.
    • Etc.

    However, I have a different protocol for training with my SIRT pistol:
    • Trigger discipline--always
    • I do it in various rooms or moving between rooms to practice shooting around barriers
    • I don't worry about backstops
    • I try to avoid "muzzling" family members as a habit, waiting for them to move if needed. This, to reinforce habits I want to build.
    • I don't worry about muzzling the dog or the cat. But I don't aim at them either.
    • I'm not rigid about this. For example, I may point the SIRT pistol at my hand and pull the trigger to demonstrate it fires a laser.

    If I had a blue gun, I would probably be even more relaxed than with my SIRT pistol. Though I would absolutely follow trigger discipline, even with a toy Star Wars "blaster."

    However in some training I attended recently, I found instructors make no distinction between real vs. SIRT vs. blue guns. All are treated as if they're dangerous. The whole point of plastic training aids should be a relaxed protocol, I reasoned.

    What do others think?
     
    ToolAA

    ToolAA

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 17, 2016
    10,576
    God's Country
    Uber said:
    However in some training I attended recently, I found instructors make no distinction between real vs. SIRT vs. blue guns. All are treated as if they're dangerous. The whole point of plastic training aids should be a relaxed protocol, I reasoned.

    What do others think?
    Click to expand...

    I dry fire with my actual firearms. I have some laser devices and laser targets along with the ManrisX. No SIRT or blue guns.

    I have a specific wall that I use as my target area it’s not near any area that an unsuspecting relatives might pop through a nearby door. I also check that the firearm is clear as soon as it comes out of the safe and before it goes back in.

    While practicing I’m very focused on proper trigger discipline as a matter of building and reinforcing good safe habits. I don’t see that I would behave differently if I was holding a SIRT or blue gun while practicing. However I can see situations where someone practicing with a blue gun may intentionally point it at another person. Say in some sort of martial arts defense class or something.
     
    A

    ADR

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 17, 2011
    4,171
    Uber said:
    I'm curious to know other's opinions on protocols for real pistols, in contrast with SIRT pistols or mere blue-gun pistols.

    I do dry fire with real pistols (where, "dry fire" = "unloaded") following this protocol:

    • [*]Dry fire in a room with no ammo
      [*]Dry fire toward a proper backstop (for me, a concrete wall without windows)
      [*]Verify the gun is clear beforehand and treat the room as if it were a firing line.
      [*]Trigger discipline--always
      [*]I do point the gun at objects in the room--objects I don't intend to destroy.
      [*]Etc.

    However, I have a different protocol for training with my SIRT pistol:
    • Trigger discipline--always
    • I do it in various rooms or moving between rooms to practice shooting around barriers
    • I don't worry about backstops
    • I try to avoid "muzzling" family members as a habit, waiting for them to move if needed. This, to reinforce habits I want to build.
    • I don't worry about muzzling the dog or the cat. But I don't aim at them either.
    • I'm not rigid about this. For example, I may point the SIRT pistol at my hand and pull the trigger to demonstrate it fires a laser.

    If I had a blue gun, I would probably be even more relaxed than with my SIRT pistol. Though I would absolutely follow trigger discipline, even with a toy Star Wars "blaster."

    However in some training I attended recently, I found instructors make no distinction between real vs. SIRT vs. blue guns. All are treated as if they're dangerous. The whole point of plastic training aids should be a relaxed protocol, I reasoned.

    What do others think?
    Click to expand...

    Train the way you intend to use it regardless of which pistol is in your hand. Anything else is going to build training scars if you train enough.

    As for the bolded above regarding concrete walls, backstops, blah, blah, blah - keep the same thing in mind unless you somehow magically know that should you ever have to use it your foe will be standing in front of a concrete wall.

    I'm not telling you to be reckless but we've seen it time and time again with new officers who have a whole habitual protocol in place for safety then they get crushed in force on force scenarios because they don't stay in the fight by keeping their weapon in the fight. If you train for 3 things you're probably going to suck at all 3. If you train for 1 thing you'll eventually be able to do it well and apply it to multiple situations.
     
    erwos

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,886
    Rockville, MD
    I use a SIRT and my real guns, but I've got the laser turned off / taped on the SIRT. I have sights on the gun, my bullet will hit where the sights are. No laser needed.

    The SIRT is convenient. I don't have to open up my safe to pull it out, and I can do some impromptu one-handed practice whenever I want, with an actual trigger reset. I also shoot optics 99% of the time, and using the SIRT with irons forces me to keep practiced with that. Plus, if I need to do some pistol instruction to a group - something that seems to happen more and more - it's a safe easy way to demonstrate certain grip related things.

    That said, if you want to get those sub-second draw-to-fires in real life, you're gonna need to practice with your real gun... a lot. With a par timer.
     
    Biggfoot44

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    33,173
    It depends upon the type of Training involved .

    Laser only things wouldn't have concerns about serious backstops , but a wise thing for continuity to maintain muzzle and trigger discipline .

    " Blue " guns ( or sold aluminum , etc ) have no movable parts , so dry fire is moot .

    They could be used for drawstroke drilling .

    But their prime usage is for retention and disarming training . ( The techniques of snatching a gun Back From bad guy , not the synonym for gun control .)
     
    Blaster229

    Blaster229

    God loves you, I don't.
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 14, 2010
    46,576
    Glen Burnie
    When you are drawn down on someone, aren't you "lasering" them? Keep your finger off the trigger
    Going after an active shooter in a building with people running around, if you are in the low ready in order to not laser someone, you're wrong. Keep your finger off the trigger.
    Shoulder holsters laser thousands of people everyday in all walks of life. No finger on a trigger.
    Taking control of an airplane, every single passenger got lasered. No finger on the trigger.

    I could keep going.

    You need to know when not to do it. It's a conscious movement, just like knowing when to press the trigger.

    Blue guns are great for pointing at people. If you never point a gun at someone, why are you waiting until your first time when it actually involves pressing a trigger? Try using a blue gun aiming on someone who is moving. You might have to actually point a real pistol at a moving threat.

    People need to get out of the NRA box when it comes to self defense.
     
    kenpo333

    kenpo333

    Ultimate Member
    Industry Partner
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 18, 2012
    3,323
    Salisbury Maryland
    I use real and sirt guns. The sirt is good for driving my wife's cats crazy as well. We also use the sirts for our TI simulator. It great for putting mulitiple shots on target quickly. Blue guns are great for building grip and aiming if you can't afford the sirt.
     
    U

    Uber

    Member
    Mar 20, 2021
    31
    Gaithersburg
    I found this video on the use of blue guns: ASP Video on Blue Guns

    The gist is that blue guns are not guns. They're just pieces of plastic. So while we still treat them as we would a real gun in some respects, they allow us to train in ways that would be prohibited if all we had was a real gun.

    Bottom line: the video says pretty much what the collected wisdom of this thread just conveyed. But the video still has merit and adds something.
     
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