Cities sue atf over 80% with everytown help

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  • wolfwood

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 24, 2011
    1,361
    copy to complaint

    https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/ATF-ghost-gun-complaint.pdf

    https://www.courthousenews.com/besi...ties-say-feds-turned-a-blind-eye-on-diy-kits/



    MANHATTAN (CN) — As authorities increasingly recover untraceable “ghost guns” from crime scenes, Chicago and three other U.S. cities took aim in a federal complaint Wednesday at the government’s failure to crack down on build-it-yourself kits.

    Like a child’s toy set, so-called “ghost guns” are partially assembled firearms that come in separate parts, sometimes even with tools and instructions on how to put them together.

    Unlike legally sold and regulated firearms, the “ghost guns” lack serial numbers or any other identifying markings, which means they cannot be traced to their point of origin if they turn up at crime scenes.

    Faced with rising gun violence, Chicago is joined in the complaint by the cities of Syracuse, New York; San Jose, California; and Columbia, South Carolina.

    The cities note that federal law defines regulated firearms as including both operable weapons and their core building blocks — frames for pistols, and receivers for long guns — so long as those core building blocks are designed to be or may be readily converted into operable weapons.

    According to the complaint, however, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives has given the green light to the unregulated sale of unfinished gun frames and rifle assemblies without barrels or triggers via a series of rules and letter determinations that contravene the regulatory framework of the Gun Control Act.

    While other districts have sued ghost gun manufacturers, this complaint in the Southern District of New York is the first of its kind filed against the ATF.

    The plaintiff cities are joined in the suit by Everytown For Gun Safety, a gun-law reform group whose attorney Len Kamdang serves as lead local counsel for Wednesday’s suit.

    “ATF has refused to apply and enforce the clear terms of this federal law, opting instead to give online sellers the green-light and leaving these core components completely unregulated,” the complaint states.

    According to the complaint, the bureau issued an interpretive rule in 2015 that changed its policy so that a gun frame or “receiver” cannot be a firearm if it lacks drilling or machining and is “solid” in certain areas, as unfinished frames and receivers are.

    Manufacturers and online sellers of pistol frames and rifle-receiver parts use the ATF’s 2015 rule and subsequent letters to defend the legality of selling the firearm parts and do-it-yourself assembly kits.

    Some kits include plastic jigs fits around the frame with marking exactly where the frame needs to be drilled and filed by consumers to build it out to be a fully functional gun; in some cases, the kits also include the drilling bits.

    According to the complaint, the top-five instructional videos posted on YouTube that give guidance on finishing a frame or receiver have been viewed over 3 million times.

    “The finished product is a precision machined functional lower receiver with no serial number,” one San Bernardino-based vendor boasts of the untraceable guns, the complaint points out. “If they don’t know you have it, they can’t take it.”


    Chicago and other cities included this diagram in a federal complaint filed Wednesday, Aug. 26, against the ATF in Manhattan. (Courthouse News image)
    The proliferation of the unregulated firearms since the ATF’s rule change in 2015 coincides with dramatic increases in the numbers of recoveries of ghost guns in recent years, often used by individuals who would otherwise be prohibited from legally obtaining or possessing a firearm.

    According the complaint, a review of more than 100 federal prosecutions from 2010 to April 2020 involving ghost guns — representing over 2,500 ghost guns connected to criminal activity — found that the defendants in nearly half of the prosecutions were prohibited from possessing any firearm and would not have passed a background check if one were required.

    The plaintiffs seek a judgment declaring the ATF’s rule change unlawful and set aside, along with an order enjoining the agency from applying a definition of “firearm” to partially assembled guns that is contrary to that required by the Gun Control Act, “including any definition that permits unfinished frames and receivers from being treated as firearms if they are designed to be or readily can be converted to operable weapons.”

    ATF Acting Director Regina Lombardo is a co-defendant to the suit as are Attorney General William Barr and the Department of Justice.

    In June, the attorney general of Washington, D.C., sued Polymer80 for advertising and selling illegal guns to district consumers. The civil lawsuit, filed in D.C. Superior Court, alleged the Nevada-based company violates D.C. law by falsely representing that its weapons are legal in the District and by selling illegal firearms.

    According to the D.C. complaint, Polymer80 manufactured over 80% of the 250 ghost guns recovered by D.C. Metropolitan police from 2017 through May 2020.

    According to Polymer80’s FAQ, the company has a “strict policy” against selling their firearm assemblies to convicted felons.

    A spokesperson for the ATF declined to comment on the pending litigation Wednesday afternoon.
     

    TheOriginalMexicanBob

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 2, 2017
    32,882
    Sun City West, AZ
    If, in fact, there is an actual and not made up problem...it's the fault of Congress which made the law and not ATF's which is charged with overseeing the law. While ATF can be criticized for many things this ain't one of them. This is a stunt and nothing more than a policy dispute.
     

    whistlersmother

    Peace through strength
    Jan 29, 2013
    8,963
    Fulton, MD
    If, in fact, there is an actual and not made up problem...it's the fault of Congress which made the law and not ATF's which is charged with overseeing the law. While ATF can be criticized for many things this ain't one of them. This is a stunt and nothing more than a policy dispute.

    This.

    Wait until these cities learn the AR15 lower doesn't actually meet the definition of a firearm frame and thus isn't subject to 4473... well, almost - if ATF hadn't have caved.
     

    Qbeam

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 16, 2008
    6,083
    Georgia
    So the actual crime means nothing, just the tool used to commit it. Even if they traced the "ghost" gun, how would it be any different than a stolen gun without a serial number?



    Q
     

    BeoBill

    Crank in the Third Row
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 3, 2013
    27,169
    南馬里蘭州鮑伊
    I notice it's out of the SDNY yet again. Where are the rioters when you need them?
     

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    Docster

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 19, 2010
    9,773
    I posted a warning here about Polymer 80 frames several months back when California forced them to be serialized and sold to dealers only and Stanford CT. outlawed possession in their city. Now of course the handgun frames and/or parts kits are nearly impossible to find. Just like with ammo shortages, it pays to stay ahead of the game.
     

    OLM-Medic

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    May 5, 2010
    6,588
    buy some and bury them in a watertight container

    that way when you get red flagged you are good to go
     

    StantonCree

    Watch your beer
    Jan 23, 2011
    23,932
    I call ********.

    It’s not. They are becoming more common and you can see it via any liberal department that posts their weapon recoveries on Twitter. When i came on these were unheard of no one had a homemade gun now we are averaging 1-2 a week
     

    Norton

    NRA Endowment Member, Rifleman
    Staff member
    Admin
    Moderator
    May 22, 2005
    122,879
    Polymer80's website had been down for 24 hours or so.
     

    Norton

    NRA Endowment Member, Rifleman
    Staff member
    Admin
    Moderator
    May 22, 2005
    122,879
    It’s not. They are becoming more common and you can see it via any liberal department that posts their weapon recoveries on Twitter. When i came on these were unheard of no one had a homemade gun now we are averaging 1-2 a week

    All you have to do is to have gone to Chantilly and seen who was lining up at the tables to buy these things. i'll just say that they weren't guys wearing Crocs and polo shirts. Said to the person I was with that this was going to come back to bite us in the ass.
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,830
    Bel Air
    All you have to do is to have gone to Chantilly and seen who was lining up at the tables to buy these things. i'll just say that they weren't guys wearing Crocs and polo shirts. Said to the person I was with that this was going to come back to bite us in the ass.

    Interesting observation. Now our collective asses may soon have teeth marks. This will be tough to fight in both the courts and the court of public opinion. I’d love to dig Scalia up, point to the “the right is not unlimited” line in the Heller decision, and ask him if he realized how much joy this gives liberals.
     

    Norton

    NRA Endowment Member, Rifleman
    Staff member
    Admin
    Moderator
    May 22, 2005
    122,879
    Interesting observation. Now our collective asses may soon have teeth marks. This will be tough to fight in both the courts and the court of public opinion. I’d love to dig Scalia up, point to the “the right is not unlimited” line in the Heller decision, and ask him if he realized how much joy this gives liberals.

    This is one of those places where in principle I have no problems with it.

    In practice, which is where the real world operates, who could have foreseen the problems with people lining up at gun shows to buy "build your own G-fohty" kits and taking them back to downtown DC?

    This isn't 1992 and the era of "Unintended Consequences" where all of this type of stuff was esoteric knowledge confined to a few print newsletters, word of mouth, etc.

    Then we could have had a reasonable presumption that it wasn't knowledge that was floating out there amongst the masses. Not the case anymore.
     

    whistlersmother

    Peace through strength
    Jan 29, 2013
    8,963
    Fulton, MD
    So, to those that have no problem banning 80%, are you ready to ban dirt?

    There will always be individuals that can and will build their own firearms from beer cans, bar stock, and spit.

    Push come to shove, smelting iron ore into steel is also an option.

    The problem isn't the 80% frame. The problem is that people who do harm need to be locked up until they are no longer a problem in civilized society.
     

    cstone

    Active Member
    Dec 12, 2018
    842
    Baltimore, MD
    Having finished a few 80% AR lowers, they do not make sense financially. When Anderson stripped lowers are available for under $40 each, and a background check is under $20, the cost of the 80%, jig, end mill, and router, not to mention your time machining and cleaning make it clear to me that there is another reason for the 80% market.

    For me, it was the desire to have unmarked lowers. I could easily put the serial number, manufacture information in a less visible location. If it was just the serial number, that would be pretty easy to make unobtrusive. The roll marks, safe, semi, markings offend the aesthetics for me. Who looks at the safe, semi markings on their AR? My Colt lowers don't shoot better or worse than an Anderson. Finding someone who can do Type III hard anodizing on a non-serialized lower is practically impossible, and home anodizing is not the same as Type III from a good metal fabricator. Cerakote or alumahyde are about the best home option available as far as I know.

    What others may want with their 80% builds, I won't speculate. I find it highly unlikely that it is your average criminal looking for a crime gun, as guns are much easier to obtain via burglary or straw purchase. As for staying off of the government's radar, if you are here, you are all ready on the screen.

    Be safe.
     

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