Steel Match Ear Pro

Occam · Apr 26, 2020

Assuming we'll ever be able to shoot again in groups, figuring this virus cease fire period is a good time to address some nagging gear issues. This one is for Mrs. Occam, who is enthusiastic after her first Steel Challenge Naughty Rebel Outlaw Madness Mixed-In Match at AGC, and wants to reduce the variables that tripped her up some during her first outing.

Completely unexpected was her inability to always hear a positive ding/clang when she connected with a plate. That resulted in shooting twice when she didn't need to, or sometimes moving on and having the RO record a miss when she thought she'd hit. We love each other, but I don't think she wants me standing over her shoulder yelling "hit! miss!" like we're playing Battleship. Hmmm ... Range Battleship sounds like a hoot! Anyway:

She's got some tinnitus, and a couple of notches in her frequency response curve that make some notes/tones a bit muddled. Currently using some of those slim Walker amplified/dampening muffs. They're the monaural kind, which leads to some (lack of) directionality issues (I note the same thing with mine) - and in a noisy environment like a busy match where there's a steady drumbeat of nearby fire, the audible result is kinda chaotic.

So: without a lot of concern about the price, what's the best solution? She wants to hear what's going on, but also protect herself from (more) damage after a lifetime of various ear insults. What's the best tool for the job? Thanks in advance for input.

Squaregrouper · Apr 26, 2020

For pistol, I am very happy with the Howard Leight disposable foam plugs. Next time I see you, I will bring a couple pairs for her to try out.

dontpanic · Apr 26, 2020

Skull screws are the absolute best. The only inside the ear hearing protection that does not pop out of my ear.

https://www.arc-zone.com/ear-plugs-...MI5bXTiPeG6QIVF8DICh0ZNw17EAQYBSABEgI5KPD_BwE

Electronic muffs are nice but if you are in a noisy atmosphere they will cycle on and off. The cycling confuses everything.

davsco · Apr 26, 2020

pro ears 300 are perfect. vs the leight's, they go over vs just on my ears. pretty comfy and no issues hearing talking and steel hits.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000PW82JE/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

fyi i pd $93 on amazon so i guess look around.

davsco · Apr 26, 2020

i also use these from time to time. i get lots of feedback/ringing though if wearing a hat or hood over them. it's nice to not have muffs when it's super hot outside.

https://www.amazon.com/3M-TEP-100-Tactical-Digital-Earplug/dp/B00PABOJ0Q

Occam · Apr 26, 2020

squaregrouper said:
For pistol, I am very happy with the Howard Leight disposable foam plugs. Next time I see you, I will bring a couple pairs for her to try out.

Thanks! So, when using something like those disposables (yes, just for pistol/pcc) ... does the dampening they provide against muzzle blast not also suppress the ol' clang? Guess there's one way to find out!

danb · Apr 26, 2020

Occam said:
Thanks! So, when using something like those disposables (yes, just for pistol/pcc) ... does the dampening they provide against muzzle blast not also suppress the ol' clang? Guess there's one way to find out!

I find that my electronic Walker muffs and plugs do dampen the steel clang from rifle and sometimes pistol. Whether they dampen the clang seems to depend on the target distance. The disposables though do not. Going back and reading your OP you said she could not hear the clang while wearing Walkers. That is my experience as well.

davsco · Apr 26, 2020

Occam said:
Thanks! So, when using something like those disposables (yes, just for pistol/pcc) ... does the dampening they provide against muzzle blast not also suppress the ol' clang? Guess there's one way to find out!

foamies/disposables dampen everything, not selectively.

Squaregrouper · Apr 26, 2020

Occam said:
Thanks! So, when using something like those disposables (yes, just for pistol/pcc) ... does the dampening they provide against muzzle blast not also suppress the ol' clang? Guess there's one way to find out!

danb said:
I find that my electronic Walker muffs and plugs do dampen the steel clang from rifle and sometimes pistol. Whether they dampen the clang seems to depend on the target distance. The disposables though do not. Going back and reading your OP you said she could not hear the clang while wearing Walkers. That is my experience as well.

davsco said:
foamies/disposables dampen everything, not selectively.

These posts answer what I was about to say. The electronic muffs are constantly going on and off if multiple people are shooting. It drives me nuts, and likely even worse for someone with hearing issues.
The foam disposables dampen everything by X decibels, making it much easier to listen for the "bang-ding".

photoracer · Apr 27, 2020

I use different ear protection depending on what I am shooting and what I need to hear and to block. With rimfire I tend to use the rubber type earplugs only inserted part way so that while the shot going off is slightly louder the hit is also. I am shooting fast enough that my eyes will be on the next target and the firearm almost there when the hit sounds. I just use that to know that I don't have to go back later for a make up. For centerfire I will often use electronic muffs because I know when they hit. Electronic muffs tend to block out the sound so much that the noise cancellation will often cover the sound of a rimfire hit. You can play with the sound up and down but often there is no good setting for hits that don't make a lot of noise.

Occam · Apr 27, 2020

Appreciating the input from everybody. Obviously the solution is a red beacon light on top of each target to let you know it got hit. Filing patent now!

davsco · Apr 27, 2020

Occam said:
Appreciating the input from everybody. Obviously the solution is a red beacon light on top of each target to let you know it got hit. Filing patent now!

you're too late! for prs (precision rifle shooting out to 1k + yards) some targets will have flashing hit indicators since hits are sometimes hard to spot out that far.

Occam · Apr 27, 2020

davsco said:
you're too late! for prs (precision rifle shooting out to 1k + yards) some targets will have flashing hit indicators since hits are sometimes hard to spot out that far.

The story of my entrepreneurial life! Safe to say that hardware would get the sh!t shot out of it at a Steel Challenge style match anyway. It is comforting, though, to hear that Mrs. Occam isn't the only person trying to preserve her hearing wrestling with catching those audible clangs.

Stoveman · Apr 27, 2020

Shots by the plastic barrels throw me off. Something about the "whoomp" coming from the barrels makes it hard to hear the ding of the steel.

For the record I am not advocating for removal of the around the barrel shots.

Occam · Apr 27, 2020

Stoveman said:
Shots by the plastic barrels throw me off. Something about the "whoomp" coming from the barrels makes it hard to hear the ding of the steel.

For the record I am not advocating for removal of the around the barrel shots.

I noticed that too, and also noticed a very different experience with the pistol bs PCC. In retrospect, I think I often judge my hits visually rather than aurally. And no - don’t take away the interesting shooting positions! That’s good stuff.

Art3 · Apr 30, 2020

I've tried and disliked quite a few of the cheap electronic earmuffs. Some were just physically uncomfortable, some just didn't work right electronically (static/hissing or just crapping out). The last ones I've bought (and probably will buy) were Walker Razors. I guess they are the best of the 5 or so I've tried. I don't hate them, but I've kind of given up on the whole idea of electronic ear muffs in competition for two reasons: 1) every other time I try to use them, the batteries are dead. 2) When they do "work" they either seem to do a better job amplifying conversations from the neighboring squad, or cut out almost continuously from the shots going on nearby (not just my own). So, most of the time when you see my in my Walker's, I'm still shouting like I'm in normal earpro. I'll probably go back to the big old red and black AOSafety muff that are more comfortable long term and with slightly higher NPR. So, that's my not helpful 2 cents on that. :rolleyes:

I do have an optimistic suggestion, however. This was her first time shooting steel competitively, right? That in itself offers a whole lot of overwhelming distractions. I suspect that, without changing anything except the confidence that comes with experience, she'd find it easier to recognize hits next time just because it's not her first time. (Now, after this ******** hiatus, we're all going to be so rusty that whenever we do get to shoot again, it will feel new...so maybe it will take a couple more to fully get rid of the jitters

).

Or, she could just shoot .45 :shrug:

knovotny · Apr 30, 2020

I haven't used them enough to rave about them, but so far I like the Walkers Silencer in the ear Bluetooth thingies. They don't cut out at a loud noise like the muffs. I guess they just block sound and replace it with the electronic sound. And they are labeled left and right, plus would be hard to put in the wrong ear. I feel like I can tell decently where sound was coming from. They have a case that charges them like 3 or 4 times and then you recharge the case. I wore them riding my horse and they stayed put.

I feel like I remember her having her muffs on with the mics in the back instead of the front and switched most of the way through. Did that happen? I've done that myself and I know that mucks up my hearing.

GolfR · Apr 30, 2020

Find ear pro that regulate the sound rather than blank the amplification when loud sounds occur. Blanking is the cheap and easy way and anyone with a $30 pair of Howard’s has heard how you shoot and the outside world goes away for split second. The problem is that the clang of steel happens during that blanking period.

Regulating style cap the amount of sound that comes through but do not turn off the surrounding sound. The best known sets that do this are the MSA Sordins. They are 10x the cost of the cheapies but shoot one match with them and you will be hooked. There is a reason these are standard issue (with microphones) to some special ops.

Make sure you spend the extra and get the gel cups, I can wear them all day over glasses with no pain or head squeeze.

These things are a god send for anyone who is a range officer because you can keep situational awareness much better and it’s easy to hear hits. I find that just the muffs are ok for pistol matches but wear a pair of decibulz with the impulse valve for three gun because of my rifle break. I always double up when I’m ROing.

If you want to try before you buy catch me at the next AGC match. There are a couple of regular shooters who also have them.

Occam · Apr 30, 2020

Thanks Art, Katy, Golfr!

Yeah. Audio compression is definitely going to be superior to outright gating.

I’m sure, Art, that you’re right about the first-time-out factor making everything harder to deal with.

Can’t wait for a chance to get out and shoot again, even if can’t hear a dang thing.

jimbobborg · May 1, 2020

knovotny said:
I haven't used them enough to rave about them, but so far I like the Walkers Silencer in the ear Bluetooth thingies. They don't cut out at a loud noise like the muffs. I guess they just block sound and replace it with the electronic sound. And they are labeled left and right, plus would be hard to put in the wrong ear. I feel like I can tell decently where sound was coming from. They have a case that charges them like 3 or 4 times and then you recharge the case. I wore them riding my horse and they stayed put.

I have these, they're awesome. The inserts come in different sizes for better fit.

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