Long Guns In Vehicles..

Inigoes said:

That's good.

Take note of the innkeeper COMAR, if you are staying at a hotel.

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Noted, Thanks

I believe I'll most likely leave it locked in the truck.. probably throw a trigger lock on it once I park her for the night just as a little extra percaution. It will be completely out of view so passerbys will have no idea.

I can answer Delaware for you.

You only need to have the firearm in a plain and visible location if you are open carrying - no CCW needed. Since you have a UT non-res CCW (as long as it's valid), you can store it out of view, in the vehicle, loaded and hot.

Thanks, thats kinda what I expected.

§ 10-410. Restrictions on hunting wildlife generally [Amendment subject to abrogation].

(c) Hunting from vehicles.-

(1) A person may not shoot at any species of wildlife from an automobile or other vehicle or, except as provided in § 4-203(b) of the Criminal Law Article and Title 5, Subtitle 3 of the Public Safety Article, possess in or on an automobile or other vehicle a loaded handgun or shotgun, or a rifle containing any ammunition in the magazine or chamber.

Andras said:

§ 10-410. Restrictions on hunting wildlife generally [Amendment subject to abrogation].

(c) Hunting from vehicles.-

(1) A person may not shoot at any species of wildlife from an automobile or other vehicle or, except as provided in § 4-203(b) of the Criminal Law Article and Title 5, Subtitle 3 of the Public Safety Article, possess in or on an automobile or other vehicle a loaded handgun or shotgun, or a rifle containing any ammunition in the magazine or chamber.

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Hunting and traveling are different things, although I doubt many members of the MSP could be expected to understand the difference!

justsand said:

Only regulated

I ride around and have been stopped by msp and local with a rifle (700) uncased on my passenger seat during deer season (unloaded be ammo on same seat) and never been asked anything other than is it loaded.

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Likewise I got into an wreck years ago in Baltimore County with my shotgun laying open on my back seat and the LEO'S never asked if it was unloaded. One did ask if it was my gun. I did have a friend with me. I told him that it was mine and then I asked him if it was okay for it to be there? He told me that he did not know.

NJisAhellHOLE said:

Noted, Thanks

I believe I'll most likely leave it locked in the truck.. probably throw a trigger lock on it once I park her for the night just as a little extra percaution. It will be completely out of view so passerbys will have no idea.

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It's always better to be safe than sorry

NJisAhellHOLE said:

So, from reading the law quote on the opening page of that thread it would lead me to believe that carrying a loaded long gun is legal.

or so I think?.. I love confusing 2A laws.. NJ is chuck full of them

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With things like this I always like to see what a hand full of in the field LEO'S will answer this question.

on the question of whether the long gun must be unloaded

The question of whether there actually is a general statewide prohibition on carrying a non-concealed and loaded long gun, in a motor vehicle, has been hashed out in several past threads on this forum, including this thread in 2010:
http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread...522#post701522

I have argued, as a purely academic matter, that there is no such general prohibition in state law, or at least none that meets constitutional requirements for fair warning (i.e., clarity). The prohibition usually cited is buried in the hunting code, and it contains no exception for law enforcement officers. So either this law is limited to contexts which at least arguably entail hunting, or there may be a lot of police officers violating the law in urban areas and elsewhere.

However, there are apparently plenty of people who disagree with my theory, including some people involved in law enforcement. I personally would not carry a loaded long gun in a motor vehicle, nor recommend that anyone do it. Nevertheless, in all of the past back and forth on this subject, no one has yet produced a single citation of a single case in which this hunting statute has been applied to obtain a conviction for carrying a loaded long gun in a vehicle, in an urban setting far removed from any possible allegation of hunting activity, and I remain skeptical that any such conviction (if obtained) would survive judicial scrutiny on appeal.

As someone else pointed out further up, there certainly are county ordinances that prohibit carrying loaded long guns in some jurisdictions, and that do not have the limitations of the state law.

Markp said:

Hunting and traveling are different things, although I doubt many members of the MSP could be expected to understand the difference!

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A loaded long gun could be considered evidence of hunting activity.


NATURAL RESOURCES
TITLE 10. WILDLIFE
SUBTITLE 11. PENALTIES AND FINES, SEARCHES, SEIZURES,AND FORFEITURES

Md. NATURAL RESOURCES Code Ann. § 10-1101 (2012)

§ 10-1101. Penalties


(a) Each game bird or mammal taken illegally constitutes separate offense. -- For the purpose of this title, each game bird or mammal taken illegally, purchased, offered for purchase, sold, bartered, or exchanged in excess of the bag limit or possessed illegally constitutes a separate offense.

(b) First offense. -- Any person who violates any provision of this title is guilty of a misdemeanor. Unless another penalty is specifically provided elsewhere in this title, the person, upon conviction, is subject to a fine not exceeding $ 1,500, with costs imposed in the discretion of the court.

(c) Second or subsequent offense. --

(1) Unless another penalty is specifically provided elsewhere in this title any person found guilty of a second or subsequent violation of any provision of this title, is subject to a fine not exceeding $ 4,000, or imprisonment not exceeding 1 year, or both, with costs imposed in the discretion of the court.

(2) In addition, the license under which the person operated in the commission of the violation shall be suspended for 12 months from the date of the second conviction.

(3) For the purpose of this subsection, a second or subsequent violation is a violation which has occurred within 2 years of any prior violation of this title and which arises out of a separate set of circumstances.

(d) Violation of regulation. -- In addition to any administrative penalty provided in this title, violation of any regulation adopted by any unit within the Department pursuant to the provisions of this title is a misdemeanor and is punishable as provided in subsections (b) and (c) of this section.

(e) Applicability. -- This section does not apply to a violation of § 10-424(2) of this title.

HISTORY: 1985, ch. 754; 1988, chs. 545, 639; 1989, ch. 5, § 1; ch. 137; 1990, ch. 6, § 2.

NATURAL RESOURCES
TITLE 10. WILDLIFE
SUBTITLE 11. PENALTIES AND FINES, SEARCHES, SEIZURES,AND FORFEITURES

Md. NATURAL RESOURCES Code Ann. § 10-1106 (2012)

§ 10-1106. Seizure, forfeiture, and disposition of devices, equipment, or property


(a) In general. -- A Natural Resources police officer or any law enforcement officer, upon arresting any person for violating any provision of this title or any regulation adopted pursuant to this title, may seize any device, equipment, conveyance, or property unlawfully used. If the owner or person in charge of the seized device, equipment, conveyance, or property is convicted, the court may declare the device, equipment, conveyance, or property forfeited, in addition to any other penalty provided in this title. Any forfeiture becomes the property of the Department for disposition at the Department's discretion. If the owner is not known, the court may proceed ex parte to hear and determine any question of forfeiture. If the owner or person charged with the violation is not convicted, the device, equipment, conveyance, or property seized shall be released and returned to the owner or person.

(b) Exceptions. -- The device, conveyance, or property may not be forfeited if the owner was not a consenting party or privy to a violation.

WeaponsCollector said:

As far as I know in MD to transport any kind of guns in a vehicle they must be inside a case, unloaded, and the ammo must be kept in a seperate part of the vehicle from the guns.

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Not true for handguns. The ammo can be in the same spot, provided that the gun is unloaded and in a separate case. Gun in a rug, ammo and gun rug in a range bag, perfectly legal per §4–203.

MH

Maryland Hunter said:

Not true for handguns. The ammo can be in the same spot, provided that the gun is unloaded and in a separate case. Gun in a rug, ammo and gun rug in a range bag, perfectly legal per §4–203.

MH

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Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that it is not true for ANY gun as long as you abide by your above stipulations.

ThatIsAFact: Thanks for loging in as yourself and answering this question very well!

-Jim

I am also of the opinion that none of Section 10 of the Natural Resources code applies outside of hunting. If you look at the title alone of the restriction quoted above, IMO, it can't apply.

2010 Maryland Code
NATURAL RESOURCES
TITLE 10 - WILDLIFE
Subtitle 4 - Hunting Restrictions - In General

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Then, look at the definition of hunt in section 10.

"Hunt" means to pursue, capture, catch, kill, gig, trap, shoot, or attempt to pursue, capture, catch, kill, gig, trap, or shoot, or in any manner reduce any bird or mammal to personal possession.

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If you are not hunting, it doesn't apply. Yes, I read the AG's office quoting this law. Yes, I think a non-knowledgeable on firearms law assistant AG drafted the response.

NateIU10 said:

I am also of the opinion that none of Section 10 of the Natural Resources code applies outside of hunting. If you look at the title alone of the restriction quoted above, IMO, it can't apply.


Then, look at the definition of hunt in section 10.


If you are not hunting, it doesn't apply. Yes, I read the AG's office quoting this law. Yes, I think a non-knowledgeable on firearms law assistant AG drafted the response.

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If it was only in effect while engaged in hunting activities, why did they exempt Law Enforcement and Permit holders?

Andras said:

If it was only in effect while engaged in hunting activities, why did they exempt Law Enforcement and Permit holders?

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They didn't.

§ 10-410. Restrictions on hunting wildlife generally [Amendment subject to abrogation].

(c) Hunting from vehicles.-

(1) A person may not shoot at any species of wildlife from an automobile or other vehicle or, except as provided in § 4-203(b) of the Criminal Law Article and Title 5, Subtitle 3 of the Public Safety Article, possess in or on an automobile or other vehicle a loaded handgun or shotgun, or a rifle containing any ammunition in the magazine or chamber.


4-203b is law enforcement
Title 5 Subtitle 3 is Permit holders.

Both exempted from the ban on loaded handguns in a vehicle.

Still want to argue that it applies only while hunting?

Andras said:

§ 10-410. Restrictions on hunting wildlife generally [Amendment subject to abrogation].

(c) Hunting from vehicles.-

(1) A person may not shoot at any species of wildlife from an automobile or other vehicle or, except as provided in § 4-203(b) of the Criminal Law Article and Title 5, Subtitle 3 of the Public Safety Article, possess in or on an automobile or other vehicle a loaded handgun or shotgun, or a rifle containing any ammunition in the magazine or chamber.


4-203b is law enforcement
Title 5 Subtitle 3 is Permit holders.

Both exempted from the ban on loaded handguns in a vehicle.

Still want to argue that it applies only while hunting?

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This is how I read the law:
1) You cannot shoot at any animal from an automobile/vehicle
2) You cannot, while engaged in hunting activities, have a loaded firearm in the vehicle.

The reasoning for this construction, I believe, is as follows. The state wanted to make it illegal to hunt from a vehicle. The first prohibition makes it illegal to ACTUALLY shoot an animal from a car. The second prohibition makes it illegal to hunt FROM a vehicle by making it illegal to have a loaded firearm in the car. This means that, even if a person has not fired at or shot an animal from a vehicle, DNR can still go after people for hunting from a vehicle. The obvious aim of this entire section is to prohibit certain hunting and related activities.

So in short, the state wanted to stop hunting from vehicles. They made it illegal to do so with the act of shooting at the animal, and being ready to do so.

But hey, I'm only 2/3 through law school, so I could be wrong. That's just how I read it and make sense of the law. I will say that I can find no cases at all that use (c)(1), but I think I have a legitimate argument on my interpretation.

ETA:

Andras said:

If it was only in effect while engaged in hunting activities, why did they exempt Law Enforcement and Permit holders?

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I think the more important question would be, if it didn't apply to only hunting from vehicles, why does (c), which is obviously part of (c)(1), state "Hunting from vehicles-"

Permit holders still cannot possess a loaded rifle or shotgun, only handguns. The state was, IMO, trying to let people with unrestricted permits still carry their handguns while hunting. They still cannot shoot at an animal from the vehicle.

there is no exception for LEOS for long guns in 10-401

Andras said:

§ 10-410. Restrictions on hunting wildlife generally [Amendment subject to abrogation].

(c) Hunting from vehicles.- (1) A person may not shoot at any species of wildlife from an automobile or other vehicle or, except as provided in § 4-203(b) of the Criminal Law Article and Title 5, Subtitle 3 of the Public Safety Article, possess in or on an automobile or other vehicle a loaded handgun or shotgun, or a rifle containing any ammunition in the magazine or chamber.

4-203b is law enforcement
Title 5 Subtitle 3 is Permit holders.

Both exempted from the ban on loaded handguns in a vehicle.

Still want to argue that it applies only while hunting?

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The Original Poster asked about transporting LONG GUNS, and that is what we have been hashing out here. 4-203(b) of the Criminal Law Article are exceptions to the general prohibitions on carrying and transporting handguns; it has an exception for law enforcement officers, but no application to long guns. Title 5, Subtitle 3 of the Public Safety Article is the statute on the handgun-permit issuance system; it has no application to long guns.

Notably, Section 10-401, the hunting statute, does NOT cross-reference Title 5, Subtitle 3 of the PSA, which deals with firearms in general, and which contains a broader exception for law enforcement officers. Why didn't they tie in those exceptions to 10-401? I think it was because the legislature did not want anyone -- including law enforcement officers -- hunting from vehicles.