80 Percent Builds/Applicable Laws

MD80 · Oct 11, 2019

I have been researching how to legally build both 80 percent pistols (AR/1911/Glock/Sig, etc) as well as AR15s in Maryland for quite some time.

As you all probably know, these waters in Maryland are murky at best. I am clear on the legality on a federal level, and clear on MD compliant configuration for ARs. I am also clear on the requirements for SBR and suppressors.

What I am not clear on is this: if I were to build, say an AR15 in 223 (post 2013 compliant) and a Glock or other handgun from an 80 percent frame with an ATF determination letter, what laws pertain to this? I would do all of the work myself, with my own tools, and I would not intend to sell anything.

Essentially, what I am looking for is what laws or statutes should I print out to keep with said firearms in the event an uninformed LEO raises questions over legality? I figured that if I print out the GCA1968 and some Maryland specifics, that should cover me.

Do other 80%ers travel with their completed builds, and go to ranges without issue? I know some ranges will check/log serial numbers as part of the process. Also, it seems with the HQL, depending on the range, you may need to have an HQL to participate.

I also understand that this site is not for legal advice, but with all of the build talk on here, there is a lot of personal experience. Again, I am trying to play within the law here and it is beyond confusing to say the least. I am not totally against serialization either, if that would help. I like to build things and I would like to be able to enjoy some builds and take them out for range time, not confiscation!

teratos · Oct 11, 2019

I have a ton of 80% stuff. I keep nothing with me. ATF says it’s fine to build firearms for personal use. It’s widely known and easily found.

danb · Oct 11, 2019

As long as the end product is legal you are fine. Dont build a banned scary rifle, assault pistol, or NFA item (without first applying for.gov permission and paying tax).

There may not be a specific statue that covers it because unlike England, Maryland statue only tells you what you cannot do. Everything else is legal.

mac1_131 · Oct 11, 2019

Nice first post!

rseymorejr · Oct 11, 2019

MD80 said:
I

Do other 80%ers travel with their completed builds, and go to ranges without issue? I know some ranges will check/log serial numbers as part of the process. Also, it seems with the HQL, depending on the range, you may need to have an HQL to participate.

I have't built anything from an 80% receiver, yet. But if and when I do I probably wouldn't use it for protection, in the house or CC but I would certainly take it out and shoot it whenever I wanted. Without giving any thought to having to prove it's legality.
But, what caught my attention was the above. What the hell kind of range are you going to? No range is looking at or recording any serial number on anything I own. Nor will I show an HQL to shoot on a range, that's just for buying.

teratos · Oct 11, 2019

rseymorejr said:
I have't built anything from an 80% receiver, yet. But if and when I do I probably wouldn't use it for protection, in the house or CC but I would certainly take it out and shoot it whenever I wanted. Without giving any thought to having to prove it's legality.
But, what caught my attention was the above. What the hell kind of range are you going to? No range is looking at or recording any serial number on anything I own. Nor will I show an HQL to shoot on a range, that's just for buying.

Good point. I’ve been to most ranges in my area and beyond. Nobody has ever looked at my guns.

Biggfoot44 · Oct 11, 2019

Chill out, MD80 made his/ her introduction in the Introductions sub forum 55minutes before starting this thread , so the Protocol was followed

.

***************************

But on topic , you answered the pertinent questions in your own post. To wit, make sure to understand the details of NFA, and FSA13 , and make sure your creation is in compliance .

Basically their status is the same as any other firearm of the same configuration .

GuitarmanNick · Oct 12, 2019

Never had any issues with my builds at any facility. Make sure you understand applicable laws before you begin acquiring parts.

gizzard · Oct 12, 2019

how reliable are the glock builds?

Muleskinner · Oct 12, 2019

I have built seven AR rifles in various calibers and more than a dozen 80% Glock clones and I keep no paperwork whatsoever. It's not up to me to prove my innocence. It's up to the government to prove my guilt and because I know I'm not breaking any laws state or federal then I have nothing to worry about.the biggest reason to build from 80% is so the government doesn't know what you own.

K31 · Oct 12, 2019

Biggfoot44 said:
Chill out, MD80 made his/ her introduction in the Introductions sub forum 55minutes before starting this thread , so the Protocol was followed .

Did you get his serial numbers and copy of his HQL for participation?

teratos · Oct 12, 2019

gizzard said:
how reliable are the glock builds?

I have 4. They have all run very well. I have had a couple FTE in the first 100 rounds, but after that, no hiccups at all. I would rely on them as carry guns.

Biggfoot44 · Oct 12, 2019

Ok , I was partly serious, and partly spoofing both directions at the same time, the internet doesn't do well with compound interlocking dynamic subtleties .

Docster · Oct 12, 2019

mac1_131 said:
Nice first post!

Guess it's really his 2nd. As well as the answers here you'll find much already discussed by doing a Search on the topic

MD80 · Oct 13, 2019

Thanks for all of the replies! Teratos, Danb: good to know, I just thought there might be some relevant Maryland law that could be more strict than federal. Mac1: Thanks a bunch!
I figured this would stir the hive, and I was expecting some sarcastic replies (use search function, etc.). I thought that there may be some real world experience in dealing with local law enforcement on the issue. The idea behind this thread was to clarify in anyway possible the legality of 80 builds in Maryland.
I see that several of you have some completed builds and choose not to travel with any paperwork. That certainly shows a level of confidence. I thought that this may be useful to others in the future if there was a law or even a case to reference. I get that the law is there to restrict, rather than spell out what is legal.
As far as the HQL and serial numbers at ranges, I haven't ran into that myself, but I heard or read something to that effect, but can't recall where.
Bigfoot, Guitarman, Muleskinner: thanks to all.

lazarus · Oct 13, 2019

gizzard said:
how reliable are the glock builds?

I’ve given up on my V1.5 80 G17. Could be my fault. I boggered the trigger pin hole by drilling straight through instead of from both sides. No wiggle to the pin. Might not be related. Occasional failures to go fully back in to battery. Especially once it warmed up. Or I might not have machined the rear rails quite right. Anyway, I get about 1:30 of those. Almost never in the first mag.

I’d be willing to try another one. Plenty of folks have had zero issues and I know I didn’t do some stuff right. I’d go with a V2 or the G17 though with the drop in rear rails. Wouldn’t like run flawlessly. I just went with a serialized Glock gen 3 frame and that’s run fine with one FTF on a wolf steel case round out of 100 of Wolf. Zero failures in 100rnds of Remington green box.

Interested in trying an AR 80 at some point.

lazarus · Oct 13, 2019

MD80 said:
Thanks for all of the replies! Teratos, Danb: good to know, I just thought there might be some relevant Maryland law that could be more strict than federal. Mac1: Thanks a bunch!
I figured this would stir the hive, and I was expecting some sarcastic replies (use search function, etc.). I thought that there may be some real world experience in dealing with local law enforcement on the issue. The idea behind this thread was to clarify in anyway possible the legality of 80 builds in Maryland.
I see that several of you have some completed builds and choose not to travel with any paperwork. That certainly shows a level of confidence. I thought that this may be useful to others in the future if there was a law or even a case to reference. I get that the law is there to restrict, rather than spell out what is legal.
As far as the HQL and serial numbers at ranges, I haven't ran into that myself, but I heard or read something to that effect, but can't recall where.
Bigfoot, Guitarman, Muleskinner: thanks to all.

There isn’t for now. Maryland general assembly debated, but shot down a bill banning home made firearms. They decided to research it some more.

Might come up again.

r3t1awr3yd · Oct 16, 2019

MD80 said:
I have been researching how to legally build both 80 percent pistols (AR/1911/Glock/Sig, etc) as well as AR15s in Maryland for quite some time.

As you all probably know, these waters in Maryland are murky at best. I am clear on the legality on a federal level, and clear on MD compliant configuration for ARs. I am also clear on the requirements for SBR and suppressors.

What I am not clear on is this: if I were to build, say an AR15 in 223 (post 2013 compliant) and a Glock or other handgun from an 80 percent frame with an ATF determination letter, what laws pertain to this? I would do all of the work myself, with my own tools, and I would not intend to sell anything.

Essentially, what I am looking for is what laws or statutes should I print out to keep with said firearms in the event an uninformed LEO raises questions over legality? I figured that if I print out the GCA1968 and some Maryland specifics, that should cover me.

Do other 80%ers travel with their completed builds, and go to ranges without issue? I know some ranges will check/log serial numbers as part of the process. Also, it seems with the HQL, depending on the range, you may need to have an HQL to participate.

I also understand that this site is not for legal advice, but with all of the build talk on here, there is a lot of personal experience. Again, I am trying to play within the law here and it is beyond confusing to say the least. I am not totally against serialization either, if that would help. I like to build things and I would like to be able to enjoy some builds and take them out for range time, not confiscation!

Which ranges do this??

cornstalk · Oct 16, 2019

Muleskinner said:
I have built seven AR rifles in various calibers and more than a dozen 80% Glock clones...It's up to the government to prove my guilt...the biggest reason to build from 80% is so the government doesn't know what you own.

Which is why you posted your inventory on here, right? :lol2:

Docster · Oct 16, 2019

MD80 said:
I have been researching how to legally build both 80 percent pistols (AR/1911/Glock/Sig, etc) as well as AR15s in Maryland for quite some time.

As you all probably know, these waters in Maryland are murky at best. I am clear on the legality on a federal level, and clear on MD compliant configuration for ARs. I am also clear on the requirements for SBR and suppressors.

What I am not clear on is this: if I were to build, say an AR15 in 223 (post 2013 compliant) and a Glock or other handgun from an 80 percent frame with an ATF determination letter, what laws pertain to this? I would do all of the work myself, with my own tools, and I would not intend to sell anything.

Essentially, what I am looking for is what laws or statutes should I print out to keep with said firearms in the event an uninformed LEO raises questions over legality? I figured that if I print out the GCA1968 and some Maryland specifics, that should cover me.

Do other 80%ers travel with their completed builds, and go to ranges without issue? I know some ranges will check/log serial numbers as part of the process. Also, it seems with the HQL, depending on the range, you may need to have an HQL to participate.

I also understand that this site is not for legal advice, but with all of the build talk on here, there is a lot of personal experience. Again, I am trying to play within the law here and it is beyond confusing to say the least. I am not totally against serialization either, if that would help. I like to build things and I would like to be able to enjoy some builds and take them out for range time, not confiscation!

So maybe THAT'S why my friend puts used Glock slides on some of his builds along with grip tape

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