New NJ and NY carry cases filed

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  • Assists21

    Active Member
    Jan 17, 2013
    124
    Please forgive me. The "light at the end of the tunnel" hit me the wrong way during my first cup of coffee this morning.



    PowPow, “the light at the end of the tunnel”, was specifically directed towards the 2A in this court case and the progress that’s being made there. MD may not show signs of improvement on its own regarding the 2A, but on the national level things are different. MD is the fish fighting the current. I’m not blind to the state of affairs in the US, but also, unlike others, I’m not of the belief that evil will prevail.


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    krucam

    Ultimate Member
    I'm still sort of hopeful either Rogers or Pena (CA Microstamping) case gets picked up in addition to NYSRPA v NYC...I'm thinking Thomas will be getting more forceful in hearing some of these cases...
     

    danb

    dont be a dumbass
    Feb 24, 2013
    22,704
    google is your friend, I am not.
    I think if Pena was getting a grant, it would have by now. I think its pending NYSRPA.

    Only real reason I can see to deny Rogers (given that Mance and Pena are being held, and NYSRPA deals in part with outside the home RKBA) is if its not a good vehicle. I have no opinion on that except that I thought that the petitioners reply brief dealt with it persuasively. I think it will either get held with a good chance of an outright grant.
     

    Pope414

    Active Member
    this is just a personal feeling I have about this but it seems like everything is lined up just right, you have NYRPC with cert ,Rogers going to conf. Gould waiting to go to conf. we could wind up with the SCOTUS going all Michael Corleone and "Settling all family business" by consolidating the 3 cases or you could have Rogers and Gould merged . I don't see them merging Rogers and NYRPC ...like i said just a personal feeling
     

    Assists21

    Active Member
    Jan 17, 2013
    124
    Question for those who better understand the process...let’s say at the end of the day all that is granted cert is the NYSRPA case, and they rule in favor of NYSRPA with the guidelines of strict scrutiny. How does this affect MD? Will the lower courts be required to revisit prior decisions (Kolbe, Woolard, etc.) or are those cases finished and new cases need to be brought before the court?


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    Last edited:

    Kharn

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 9, 2008
    3,578
    Hazzard County
    Question for those who better understand the process...let’s say at the end of the day all that is granted cert is the NYSRPA case, and they rule in favor of NYSRPA with the guidelines of strict scrutiny. How does this affect MD? Will the lower courts be required to revisit prior decisions (Kolbe, Woolard, etc.) or are those cases finished and new cases need to be brought before the court?


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    You need an active case in each infringing jurisdiction for anywhere that does not legislatively revoke their own law, so everyone races to file suit. For Caetano, only NY refused to void their laws and required a trip to the 2nd Circuit, everyone else gave up voluntarily or at the district court IIRC.
     

    press1280

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 11, 2010
    7,878
    WV
    Question for those who better understand the process...let’s say at the end of the day all that is granted cert is the NYSRPA case, and they rule in favor of NYSRPA with the guidelines of strict scrutiny. How does this affect MD? Will the lower courts be required to revisit prior decisions (Kolbe, Woolard, etc.) or are those cases finished and new cases need to be brought before the court?


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    That's a good question IF Scotus happens to deny cert to the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th circuit carry cases but still hears NYSRPA.
     

    danb

    dont be a dumbass
    Feb 24, 2013
    22,704
    google is your friend, I am not.
    I am pretty skeptical at this point that NYSRPA will be mooted. Everything I've read says a) the burden of proof would be on NYC; b)its very hard for a government agency or municipality to get a case mooted while at the same time claiming legality of what they were doing (which is what NYC is doing here); c)Supreme Court will look at the totality of the circumstances.

    Based on everything I've read, NYC would basically have to stipulate that the prior conduct was unconstitutional, which they are not doing. Clement smartly alluded to this in his brief. Based on some precedents I've read Supreme Court could (and likely would) vacate the lower appeals court ruling. Maybe there is a bona fide question of mootness doctrine, the Supreme Court could remand with instructions for the 2nd to consider whether the case is really moot. NYC could take its stipulation, change of regulation, and mootness argument to the lower court which will suddenly make the 2nd feel justifiably burned by NYC. "So yeah now you change your mind ..."

    Either way, the point will have been made and message will be received by the 2nd, and this will impact other cases. I have no doubt other cases will be granted so I am not worried about this one.

    In all honestly, I am somewhat attracted to the idea of NYC going back to plead its case and tell the now-pissed-off 2nd they had a "real" change of heart and were wrong all those other times, so the case is moot.

    Personally I think NYC made a dumb move here in its arrogance: cases will be granted either way. Now they damaged their own credibility with the courts.
     

    press1280

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 11, 2010
    7,878
    WV
    How has NYC worded the comment period announcement?

    Typically when you do something like this, you tell everyone why you're looking at making changes.

    They have 2 options as I see it-admit that the law is unconstitutional or tell everyone that they don't want SCOTUS to review the case.
     

    danb

    dont be a dumbass
    Feb 24, 2013
    22,704
    google is your friend, I am not.
    How has NYC worded the comment period announcement?

    Typically when you do something like this, you tell everyone why you're looking at making changes.

    They have 2 options as I see it-admit that the law is unconstitutional or tell everyone that they don't want SCOTUS to review the case.

    Posted in the other thread.

    NYC’s Public comment period for proposed changes to the Transport Law...yeah, they WILL CERTAINLY continue in their attempt to moot the case...

    https://rules.cityofnewyork.us/content/amendment-premise-handgun-license-rules

    They went with door #2, tell everyone they dont want SCOTUS review.
     

    danb

    dont be a dumbass
    Feb 24, 2013
    22,704
    google is your friend, I am not.
    The NJ (Rogers v Grewal) conference happens on 5/23, but we find out the result (order list) on the following tuesday (due to Memorial day). Between 5/24 and when the order list is released we are in a kind of Schroedingers cat situation.
     

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