Heritage Training Center Not Doing Well??

The events and promotions you suggest are a good idea. In the last two Frederick IDPA events that I attended, someone from HTC was participating, and handed out coupons for one hour free range time at HTC. Smart audience to target.

As you know, their targets are highly programmable, and can flip forward to show the target from for a couple of seconds, flip sideways for a longer interval, repeat the process a defined number of times. Can be a fun way to train for competitive shooters.

I agree about the lighting being dimmer, than TMGN for example, but ventilation being excellent. Both are nice facilities, with different strengths. I personally go to HTC more these days.

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fidelity said:

The events and promotions you suggest are a good idea. In the last two Frederick IDPA events that I attended, someone from HTC was participating, and handed out coupons for one hour free range time at HTC. Smart audience to target.

As you know, their targets are highly programmable, and can flip forward to show the target from for a couple of seconds, flip sideways for a longer interval, repeat the process a defined number of times. Can be a fun way to train for competitive shooters.

I agree about the lighting being dimmer, than TMGN for example, but ventilation being excellent. Both are nice facilities, with different strengths. I personally go to HTC more these days.

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I'll be going back tomorrow with a new gun to try-out. The range could be a tad brighter, if you ask me, but it's not that bad. I actually thought it was a little brighter than TMGN but I haven't shot anything at TMGN since May.

Yes, I saw that the targets were programmable but didn't give it a try. The couple shooting 1911s next to me were using them, though. Looked pretty cool.

Well, there's two ways to market a business to a specific audience: one is to use the shotgun-approach where you get the word out to as many people as possible, keep your fingers crossed and hope it lands upon the right ears. The other way is the laser-beam approach, which you can only do if you really know your market - know where they live, where they shop, where they surf the web, etc. HTC seems to be going with the shotgun-approach. I hope it works for them!

Went in again today. The shop had 4 or 5 folks in it. One range had 5 or 6 folks shooting and I saw 2 people signing up for memberships.

Definitely had a buzz going on there. I wanted to stay all day.

pilot25 said:

Went in again today. The shop had 4 or 5 folks in it. One range had 5 or 6 folks shooting and I saw 2 people signing up for memberships.

Definitely had a buzz going on there. I wanted to stay all day.

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I was in yesterday around 12 and it was the most crowded I've ever seen it. They said I was the fourth to sign up for a membership so far that day.

I inquired what the pricing was for bulk ammunition discounts for members. GECO 9mm was $265. Definitely not a discount. bulkammo.com has it for $220 and even with shipping you are spending less than the "discount" price.

I was very disappointed at this.

Took my new CZ 75 Compact PCR in yesterday around 3:00pm and pretty much had Range #2 to myself. Only Matt from HTC was there to hang-out and spot for me.



I had 100 rounds each of some American Eagle 115gr FMJ and Winchester 124gr FMJ. Matt remembered me from my first time at HTC and seemed generally pleased to watch me break-in my new pistol. I started off with some 7 yards sight orientation drills and shot about 25 of each before engaging the silhouette targets at 10 yards:


10 Yards, Winchester 124gr FMJ - 25 rounds


10 yards, American Eagle 115gr FMJ - 30 rounds

Nice to have my own personal RSO to do some spotting. His guidance helped me find the sight picture that the PCR likes for dead center impact. Thanks to Matt for making my second visit to HTC an enjoyable one!

The PCR shoots as good as it looks.

fidelity said:

The PCR shoots as good as it looks.

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Thanks! I'm very impressed with it, too!

I tell you what has surprised me: the difference between the PCR and the P-01.

I have approximately 700 rounds thru my P-01 and when I shoot it, I get the sensation of a standard size pistol. Recoil is pretty tame until you start getting into some of the +P stuff but otherwise it's gotta be one of the best all-around pistols ever conceived regardless of size. The P-01 is a compact that doesn't feel like a compact.

The PCR feels like a compact. It also handles fast like a compact but the recoil is nearly the same as the P-01. It is noticeably lighter than the P-01 (to me) and the rear Novak-style sight is very fast to acquire. What I like most about the PCR is the trigger. The wider, serrated-design reminds me a little of my old S&W revolvers.

Zzzzz_man said:

I know, right? TMGN looked like free Mountain Dew day at MVA at 3:30 this afternoon, with all the kids bouncing off the walls.

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Just remember those kids are the future for 2A, otherwise they may become liberal twits...

My kids are in HS, and they enjoy range, not the long ride to ranges in VA or elsewhere. So taking them to Heritage would be perfect, but not allowed.

altima98 said:

Just remember those kids are the future for 2A, otherwise they may become liberal twits...

My kids are in HS, and they enjoy range, not the long ride to ranges in VA or elsewhere. So taking them to Heritage would be perfect, but not allowed.

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I agree there should be some leeway for kids who have been raised right and know how to behave themselves on an indoor range. Do you think it might have something to do with insurance liability?

By the time mine were 5, they knew how to behave in public. By the time they were 12, they could safely handle any of the guns in the family arsenal. Unfortunately, kids like ours are the exception rather than the rule. Sometimes TMGN reminds me of the cereal aisle at Wal Mart on Saturday afternoons - total mayhem.

I have been to TMGN about 10 times now and really like it. I was someone who wanted to LOVE HTC, as I prefer a more upscale place and I'm not cost sensitive. I also assumed that TMGN would attract Ya-hoos and mall ninjas. I have been back to the HTC 2 times since I started this thread.

While HTC is really a nice facility with great staff, I'm still turned off by all the unnecessary rules. 1. I shoot my ARs while I shoot handguns. To have to wait because I need my AR to cool down before casing it up is ridiculous. If I am acting in a safe manner and the RO is comfortable that I know what I am doing, I should be able to switch between guns. 2. I want to be able to bring my kids with me to shoot. Most of us learned how to shoot from our parents and learned much earlier than 15 or 18. I can see not letting someone under 21 shoot unless accompanied by a parent, but not letting them shoot when they are with their parent is overly anal IMHO. 3. I'm not sure if it changed, but I had a couple of cases of Hornady .223 Law Enforcement Steel Jacketed Training Rounds and couldn't shoot them there despite the fact that the projectile is a jacketed lead core round. 4. No gunsmith available (at least the last time I was there). 5. More strict with their times than other ranges. Even though it wasn't busy, a guy next to me was told that his hour was up. At TMGN they let you stay on the lane longer than an hour if they aren't busy, which is a good way to treat your customers.

TMGN on the other hand really surprised me. I haven't run into many mall ninjas or yahoos. Their ROs are cool and very helpful, while keeping things safe. Their staff is awesome. Other than not having a fancy uniform like HTC, I've noticed no drop off in customer service. Here are a few reasons why I prefer TMGN: 1. TMGN is fine doing transfers and Nicole is AWESOME to deal with. She has helped me transfer guns and gotten me fair prices on 2 handguns that I bought through TMGN. I also intend to get either a SCAR H or a LWRC REPR from her this year. 2. I brought my kids and my nephew in there to shoot. They are the future of the shooting community. If we alienate them, the 2A will not survive. 3. They have a gunsmith that can do basic work like trigger work and sights. The one guy, John, actually helped me fix what I thought were stripped screw holes on my CZ. He spent 20 minutes on it and didn't charge me a dime! 4. Their prices to rent fully automatic weapons are fairly high, but that is a good thing. I believe high cost keeps knuckleheads from coming to the range to test fully auto weapons.

As I said, I thought I would be more of a HTC guy and not like TMGN, but I'm the opposite now. Cost is not a concern for me, so I was willing to join HTC (when they didn't have memberships). Thankfully I didn't lock into HTC and gave TMGN a try. I much prefer this facility. YMMV.

Mr.Blue said:

I have been to TMGN about 10 times now and really like it. I was someone who wanted to LOVE HTC, as I prefer a more upscale place and I'm not cost sensitive. I also assumed that TMGN would attract Ya-hoos and mall ninjas. I have been back to the HTC 2 times since I started this thread.

While HTC is really a nice facility with great staff, I'm still turned off by all the unnecessary rules. 1. I shoot my ARs while I shoot handguns. To have to wait because I need my AR to cool down before casing it up is ridiculous. If I am acting in a safe manner and the RO is comfortable that I know what I am doing, I should be able to switch between guns. 2. I want to be able to bring my kids with me to shoot. Most of us learned how to shoot from our parents and learned much earlier than 15 or 18. I can see not letting someone under 21 shoot unless accompanied by a parent, but not letting them shoot when they are with their parent is overly anal IMHO. 3. I'm not sure if it changed, but I had a couple of cases of Hornady Law Enforcement Steel Jacketed Training Rounds and couldn't shoot them there despite the fact that the projectile is a jacketed lead core round. 4. No gunsmith available (at least the last time I was there). 5. More strict with their times than other ranges. Even though it wasn't busy, a guy next to me was told that his hour was up. At TMGN they let you stay on the lane longer than an hour if they aren't busy, which is a good way to treat your customers.

TMGN on the other hand really surprised me. I haven't run into many mall ninjas or yahoos. Their ROs are cool and very helpful, while keeping things safe. Their staff is awesome. Other than not having a fancy uniform like HTC, I've noticed no drop off in customer service. Here are a few reasons why I prefer TMGN: 1. TMGN is fine doing transfers and Nicole is AWESOME to deal with. She has helped me transfer guns and gotten me fair prices on 2 handguns that I bought through TMGN. I also intend to get either a SCAR H or a LWRC REPR from her this year. 2. I brought my kids and my nephew in there to shoot. They are the future of the shooting community. If we alienate them, the 2A will not survive. 3. They have a gunsmith that can do basic work like trigger work and sights. The one guy, John, actually helped me fix what I thought were stripped screw holes on my CZ. He spent 20 minutes on it and didn't charge me a dime! 4. Their prices to rent fully automatic weapons is fairly high, but that is a good thing. I believe high cost keeps knuckleheads from coming to the range to test fully auto weapons.

As I said, I thought I would be more of a HTC guy and not like TMGN, but I'm the opposite now. Money is not a problem, so I was willing to join HTC (when they didn't have memberships). Thankfully I didn't lock into HTC and gave TMGN a try. I much prefer this facility. YMMV.

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I have never been to heritage, but I have been to TMGN. You are correct, they are an awesome company. I became a member there after two visits. The staff is what sold me, they are all down to earth guys and gals and are more than willing to help you in any way. My wife and good friend have both participated in the women's night and both walked away very happy. One of their instructors had spent about and hour with me personally working on my trigger squeeze with no charge at all. They have done some work on my lower and I had a lower shipped to them. The process was flawless. I have been turned off by a lot of ranges solely on the attitude and demeanor of ROs. I know they have a job to do to ensure safety but there is a certain way to do it. TMGN is certainly doing it the right way and I see them being very successful. I haven't rented any of their firearms but agree with you that even though the prices are high, it keeps unwanted people out.


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I shoot at Heritage a lot. So much so, that I'll probably lose money this year if I don't get a membership. I've shot at TMGN twice. Nice facility. Wish it was bigger.

At Heritage, I've never seen someone prompted to leave their lane after their precise 60 minutes were up. I've packed my bags and waited for folks after our respective hours were up. The display that controls the target tells you. Maybe they'll approach a person after 65-70 minutes of shooting on an hour's rental. Again, I haven't seen it, but I wouldn't find this unreasonable. I've always found the RSOs to be very courteous there. I wouldn't go back otherwise.

When Dottrio hosted an event there and Clandestine had the SOTAR trailer in the Heritage lot, Heritage handled this event smoothly with a large influx of shooters. Very professional, and with a great facility to accommodate the event - while having a separate room of lanes for shooters coming that day not attending the event. Only Heritage could pull this off in Frederick.

I agree with the criticisms regarding the number of firearms on the bench and shooter age restrictions. I have a 14 year old that I will take to TMGN for this reason. I'm a member of a couple of outdoor ranges in Frederick, and he's been shooting for several years under adult supervision. I think this is an area where Heritage could improve.

As noted, TMGN has a nice facility with great staff. I go there less in general because of small things. I like the target controls at Heritage for instance. I also like the parking availability at Heritage. I think a clear advantage of Heritage is lane availability with twice the capacity of TMGN. If TMGN has a special event or has member's only times, it's not an option for a la carte shooters. With Heritage again, they keep one room open if another has an event. Heritage has also been open on Sunday nights, when I occasionally shoot, and TMGN is closed. With Heritage, I don't need to check a calendar or closing times when I want to go shoot. I just go.

I agree that TMGN has more of shooter's vibe in that they understand the community. So despite their deficiencies, I respect what they're doing and feel that Frederick is lucky to have them.

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I've shot at both. I like both but I prefer HTC for the same reasons Fidelity previously cited.

Frederick having two great indoor ranges is a nice 'problem' to have and I wish them both continued success in 2017!

I was at HTC, in the afternoon, over the weekend and both ranges were just about full for the 2 hours I was there and there was a constant stream of people in and out. I'm there mostly on weekdays and usually am alone. However, there is always a govt. contract at the other range and in class rooms. I think they are doing okay for being open a year.

The word is out now how nice the facility is. Hopefully, they will keep putting on events to attract more people.

fidelity said:

I shoot at Heritage a lot. So much so, that I'll probably lose money this year if I don't get a membership. I've shot at TMGN twice. Nice facility. Wish it was bigger.

At Heritage, I've never seen someone prompted to leave their lane after their precise 60 minutes were up. I've packed my bags and waited for folks after our respective hours were up. The display that controls the target tells you. Maybe they'll approach a person after 65-70 minutes of shooting on an hour's rental. Again, I haven't seen it, but I wouldn't find this unreasonable. I've always found the RSOs to be very courteous there. I wouldn't go back otherwise.

When Dottrio hosted an event there and Clandestine had the SOTAR trailer in the Heritage lot, Heritage handled this event smoothly with a large influx of shooters. Very professional, and with a great facility to accommodate the event - while having a separate room of lanes for shooters coming that day not attending the event. Only Heritage could pull this off in Frederick.

I agree with the criticisms regarding the number of firearms on the bench and shooter age restrictions. I have a 14 year old that I will take to TMGN for this reason. I'm a member of a couple of outdoor ranges in Frederick, and he's been shooting for several years under adult supervision. I think this is an area where Heritage could improve.

As noted, TMGN has a nice facility with great staff. I go there less in general because of small things. I like the target controls at Heritage for instance. I also like the parking availability at Heritage. I think a clear advantage of Heritage is lane availability with twice the capacity of TMGN. If TMGN has a special event or has member's only times, it's not an option for a la carte shooters. With Heritage again, they keep one room open if another has an event. Heritage has also been open on Sunday nights, when I occasionally shoot, and TMGN is closed. With Heritage, I don't need to check a calendar or closing times when I want to go shoot. I just go.

I agree that TMGN has more of shooter's vibe in that they understand the community. So despite their deficiencies, I respect what they're doing and feel that Frederick is lucky to have them.

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I agree that HTC has a much nicer facility, but it's the "shooter's vibe" that you mention that I like about TMGN. I don't think it's in bad taste to chase someone off the lane if you have people waiting for lanes. However, If I'm there 75 minutes and it's empty, I would think it smart business not to boot me or charge me extra. What I witnessed (the guy being reminded that his hour was up) might have been an aberration.

What outside Frederick ranges do you speak of? I'd love to start shooting rifles again. Are there any that you don't have to get sponsored and volunteer?

Zzzzz_man said:

I've shot at both. I like both but I prefer HTC for the same reasons Fidelity previously cited.

Frederick having two great indoor ranges is a nice 'problem' to have and I wish them both continued success in 2017!

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While I prefer TMGN, I hope they both do really well and are in business for years!

HTC is nice, but it felt like I was in an apple store, not a shooting range.

Mr.Blue said:

I agree that HTC has a much nicer facility, but it's the "shooter's vibe" that you mention that I like about TMGN. I don't think it's in bad taste to chase someone off the lane if you have people waiting for lanes. However, If I'm there 75 minutes and it's empty, I would think it smart business not to boot me or charge me extra. What I witnessed (the guy being reminded that his hour was up) might have been an aberration.

What outside Frederick ranges do you speak of? I'd love to start shooting rifles again. Are there any that you don't have to get sponsored and volunteer?

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The outdoor ranges require volunteer time or extra membership dues. Sponsorship is straightforward (e.g. I would be happy to sponsor you for the Frederick IWLA). I'm a member of the Frederick IWLA and Monocacy Pistol Club, and the latter doesn't allow centerfire rifles.

With the Frederick IWLA, membership is $110 a year (and possibly a first year fee - don't remember) with 24 hrs work and around $230 without the work. There are other nearby IWLA ranges, some that cost less and some that cost more than the Frederick one (comparing the no volunteer work rates).

Cresap will also take members (allowing more than Sunday rifle shooting) but I don't remember the rates or work requirements.

Other nearby options are the Catoctin hunting club in Myersville area. I've shot there with a friend and remember the rates to be lower than the Frederick IWLA but the range is a bit smaller. Nice place nonetheless.

Thurmont also has an amazing outdoor facility where they host many IDPA and Cowboy shooting events, but have so much space that members can probably shoot while these are ongoing. It costs more, but I can see the attraction of membership there.

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protegeV said:

HTC is nice, but it felt like I was in an apple store, not a shooting range.

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It does stand out. Probably different from your indoor options when you were in Baltimore area.

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