AR pistol using carbine buffer tube?

giggity · Jan 28, 2018

Can you build an AR pistol with a carbine buffer tube? Yes, I'm talking about the one that a stock can be attached to. With the release of an arm brace that uses a carbine buffer tube it made me think if this question.

I'm not worried about "construction intent" because it'll be built on a registered SBR lower. This will be built from a stripped lower. I know it's kind of a silly question with it being a registered SBR but want to build it into a pistol first incase I decide I want it to be a pistol later.

Thanks in advance

Link to arm brace that uses carbine tube
https://www.sb-tactical.com/product/sba3/

outrider58 · Jan 29, 2018

giggity said:
Can you build an AR pistol with a carbine buffer tube? Yes, I'm talking about the one that a stock can be attached to. With the release of an arm brace that uses a carbine buffer tube it made me think if this question.

I'm not worried about "construction intent" because it'll be built on a registered SBR lower. This will be built from a stripped lower. I know it's kind of a silly question with it being a registered SBR but want to build it into a pistol first incase I decide I want it to be a pistol later.

Thanks in advance

Link to arm brace that uses carbine tube
https://www.sb-tactical.com/product/sba3/

Yes

giggity · Jan 29, 2018

Ok. Thanks

outrider58 · Jan 29, 2018

Ranchero50 · Jan 29, 2018

That's interesting. I wonder if you could you take it a step further and install a fixed position collapsible stock with the butt plate removed / modified? I'd thought about making a rounded butt plate for my Daniel Defense stock and fixing it in position as a brace on a pistol build.

Pitbull410 · Jan 29, 2018

If it's a registered short barreled rifle, how can it also be a pistol? It's registered as a rifle.

GoldGunsGirls · Jan 29, 2018

EDIT: I clearly under-estimated Maryland's capacity for onerous restrictions.

outrider58 · Jan 29, 2018

GoldGunsGirls said:
If it's on a registered SBR lower, it will never be a "pistol" even if you have a pistol brace on it. It will just be an SBR without a stock. This is actually advantageous in that you can freely travel around in MD with it unloaded in your trunk. If it were a pistol, you would only be able to travel within the usual range/gunsmith/hunting restrictions.

Nope. SBR s are considered pistols in Md and are to adhere to all regs as such.

NateIU10 · Jan 29, 2018

outrider58 said:
Nope. SBR s are considered pistols in Md and are to adhere to all regs as such.

Additionally, once an NFA-regulated firearm no longer meets the definition of an NFA-firearm, it is no longer an NFA-regulated firearm.

If you start with a rifle and register it as an SBR with a 10.5" barrel, that firearm is an SBR even with the stock removed.

If you start with a pistol or "virgin" receiver and register it as an SBR, that firearm is NOT and SBR with the stock removed. As such, that firearm could be sold like any other Title I firearm because it no longer meets the federal definition of an SBR. Typically, it would be a pistol under federal law.

It makes no sense at all, but that's the way it is.

outrider58 · Jan 29, 2018

NateIU10 said:
Additionally, once an NFA-regulated firearm no longer meets the definition of an NFA-firearm, it is no longer an NFA-regulated firearm.

If you start with a rifle and register it as an SBR with a 10.5" barrel, that firearm is an SBR even with the stock removed.

If you start with a pistol or "virgin" receiver and register it as an SBR, that firearm is NOT and SBR with the stock removed. As such, that firearm could be sold like any other Title I firearm because it no longer meets the federal definition of an SBR. Typically, it would be a pistol under federal law.

It makes no sense at all, but that's the way it is.

So you're saying, an SBR that is turned into a pistol can not be returned back into an SBR?

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rayrevolver · Jan 29, 2018

outrider58 said:
So you're saying, an SBR that is turned into a pistol can not be returned back into an SBR?

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You should be able to SBR a pistol that was someone elses Form 1 SBR, and removed from the registry.

I think he is saying once a rifle, always a rifle... or SBR.

If it started life as a pistol, then made into an SBR, you can simply remove the stock and it magically becomes a pistol. That does not happen with a rifle that was cut down to become an SBR.

That said, I am not sure how a factory SBR fits into the above mantra...

I saw the new SB Tac brace and its great. Add it + adapter to an MP5K and you should hit your 26" total length, and I it becomes a "firearm" and you can run the vertical grip!

outrider58 · Jan 29, 2018

rayrevolver said:
You should be able to SBR a pistol that was someone elses Form 1 SBR, and removed from the registry.

I think he is saying once a rifle, always a rifle... or SBR.

If it started life as a pistol, then made into an SBR, you can simply remove the stock and it magically becomes a pistol. That does not happen with a rifle that was cut down to become an SBR.

That said, I am not sure how a factory SBR fits into the above mantra...

I saw the new SB Tac brace and its great. Add it + adapter to an MP5K and you should hit your 26" total length, and I it becomes a "firearm" and you can run the vertical grip!

Yes. I reread it once I got home and realized what he was saying. This part confused me;

Additionally, once an NFA-regulated firearm no longer meets the definition of an NFA-firearm, it is no longer an NFA-regulated firearm.

But I'm thinking that it can be reversed back into an SBR simply by returning it back to its 'original' SBR configuration.

I'm curious as to what happens when you 'SBR' a pistol, but never get around to physically SBRing it(i.e. it is left in its pistol configuration)Is it still a pistol "in waiting"?

Pitbull410 · Jan 29, 2018

Holy crap this thread got confusing quick, good info though!

Sharpeneddark · Jan 29, 2018

outrider58 said:
So you're saying, an SBR that is turned into a pistol can not be returned back into an SBR?

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No, he's saying that you can disassemble the lower and sell it as a pistol. I believe you can put a 16" barrel on it and sell it as a standard rifle, as well.

boss281 · Sep 17, 2018

I'm a bit confused by the above, although some of this is relevant for my ask, so let's start at the beginning:

1. I have ALL the parts for a 9mm AR patterned rifle with 16" barrel, using a dedicated CMMG 9mm lower (COLT). My understanding the lower was a direct buy, no 77R.
2. I have too many 9mm rifles now, so I want to build the kit into a pistol.
3. Can I simply use a shorter barrel and hand guard, and use a pistol brace that fits on the ar style buffer tube to make it a pistol (or, just get a pistol buffer tube and brace)?
4. Anything further after this? If I want to call it an SBR later, the process is what again????

erwos · Sep 17, 2018

If you built/bought it as a rifle originally, you cannot convert it to a pistol. End of story.

boss281 · Sep 17, 2018

erwos said:
If you built/bought it as a rifle originally, you cannot convert it to a pistol. End of story.

I have all the parts for a rifle, build hasnt happened yet...thus the confusion...

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IX-3 · Sep 17, 2018

boss281 said:
I have all the parts for a rifle, build hasnt happened yet...thus the confusion...

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If you bought all of the parts and it has not been built as a rifle you can build it as a pistol with either a pistol buffer tube with/without a stabilizing brace or a carbine buffer tube with a stabilizing brace like the SBA3 from SB Tactical. If you build it as a pistol it can be changed to a rifle with a longer barrel and the appropriate buffer tube/stock/OAL. It can then be turned back into a pistol in the future if you decide you want a pistol. If you build it as a rifle first it's forever a rifle.

To SBR it you just need to fill out a From 1 with the ATF, pay your $200, wait anywhere from 4-6+ months for the stamp to come, then you can add a stock as long as it meets Maryland's 29" OAL law.

boss281 · Sep 17, 2018

Thanks, i will build the pistol first.

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tttongli · Sep 17, 2018

I only depends on what you bought the lower as, not what your intentions or if you have parts on hand.

If you transfer the lower to you as a rifle, then it is a rifle. To build it into pistol, you have to transfer it as "Other" on your 4473 item 16.

AR pistol using carbine buffer tube?

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