What is it worth for you to carry

gamer_jim said:

I recently started employment with a local government agency. One of the mandatory classes we had to take was "Workplace Violence Prevention". Funny thing mentioned several times throughout the video and by the LEO giving the lecture, people "fascinated with firearms" were a risk indicator for someone likely to commit workplace violence.

Also, for this particular local government, all firearms by non-LEO's are banned, EVEN IF YOU HAVE A MSP ISSUED CCW. That surprised me. Can a local government really make a law against carrying concealed if you have a MD State issued CCW?!?

Certainly the message of the day was "guns are bad" and "people with guns are bad". We did talk about other things as well, other indicators, but the guns thing really irritated me. Again, if CCW permits were shall issue, I think workplace shootings would be eliminated overnight. Yeah, they crazy nut-job might get one shot off but their co-workers, who would be armed, would be able to respond immediately.

I'm so tired of this "people with guns" attitude and have never seen it so prevalent since I started my new job. Am I missing something or am I not seeing something they are?

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That's when you should have stood up and said "I'm a gun enthusiast, do I seem high risk?"

That would be a great icebreaker for your new job with your new co-workers

amish said:

That's when you should have stood up and said "I'm a gun enthusiast, do I seem high risk?"

That would be a great icebreaker for your new job with your new co-workers

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I worked a job last year and because of my enthusiasm about guns my nickname was the Unabomber (in good humor).

I gotta tell ya though, the upside of being stereotyped like that is no matter how bad I screwed up, no one wanted to be the one to fire me.

gamer_jim said:

I recently started employment with a local government agency. One of the mandatory classes we had to take was "Workplace Violence Prevention". Funny thing mentioned several times throughout the video and by the LEO giving the lecture, people "fascinated with firearms" were a risk indicator for someone likely to commit workplace violence.

Also, for this particular local government, all firearms by non-LEO's are banned, EVEN IF YOU HAVE A MSP ISSUED CCW. That surprised me. Can a local government really make a law against carrying concealed if you have a MD State issued CCW?!?

Certainly the message of the day was "guns are bad" and "people with guns are bad". We did talk about other things as well, other indicators, but the guns thing really irritated me. Again, if CCW permits were shall issue, I think workplace shootings would be eliminated overnight. Yeah, they crazy nut-job might get one shot off but their co-workers, who would be armed, would be able to respond immediately.

I'm so tired of this "people with guns" attitude and have never seen it so prevalent since I started my new job. Am I missing something or am I not seeing something they are?

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By "fascinated with firearms" I think we all know what they mean. That guy who just isn't quite right, the guy who talks about guns in an "odd" way, if you know what I mean. I'm trying to find the wording so I don't get everyone on here going "Well whats wrong with that? I do that."
I'm not too sure about the CCW thing. I think there may be a stipulation about private property owners being able to say you can't bring them on their property, but not sure. Anyway, if your job has nothing that would require the need for a gun then I see no reason to have a cow about it. Carry to work, if you have a CCW, and then unload it and lock it in the trunk while at work and then re-arm when you leave. This can be risky if someone sees you do this and decides they want your gun and they break into your car while you're at work. The chance of someone being involved in a workplace shooting is probably more than a million to one.
The "people with guns are bad" attitude is getting old to say the least, but you just can't change some people's minds. We need to contiue to be responsible gun owners and not give them any more ammunition to throw in our faces.

novus collectus said:

I worked a job last year and because of my enthusiasm about guns my nickname was the Unabomber (in good humor).

I gotta tell ya though, the upside of being stereotyped like that is no matter how bad I screwed up, no one wanted to be the one to fire me.

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Well thats one way of attaining job security!! I am viewed as the one everyone here is going to call if the SHTF!!! I am also the guy everyone wants advance notice to take the day off if I ever loose it!!!

Spot77 said:

Completely different.

By your reasoning, I should carry illegally to prove a point to the legislature, to change the laws......

I do more to change the ccw laws in Maryland than 95% of the people here, and I don't need to break the law to change the law.

My best offense against the legislature is being a man of my word. Carrying illegally during the night, while proclaiming to be an usptanding citizen denied my rights during the day is not something I can do. Being a hypocrit will accomplish nothing.

To each and his own.

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I do not advocate that you break the law, my point is that following unjust and bad laws is not an integrity issue. When they pass laws to confiscate all your firearms will you surrender them willingly or hide them? The Jews of Nazi Germany followed all of Hitlers laws that he passed and we all know where that got them. I submit to you that civil disobedence againt unjust and bad laws that INFRINGE on your god given and Constitutional rights is not hipocracy.

jehu said:

I do not advocate that you break the law, my point is that following unjust and bad laws is not an integrity issue. When they pass laws to confiscate all your firearms will you surrender them willingly or hide them? The Jews of Nazi Germany followed all of Hitlers laws that he passed and we all know where that got them. I submit to you that civil disobedence againt unjust and bad laws that INFRINGE on your god given and Constitutional rights is not hipocracy.

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The day they try to come and take our guns will be the day that the next Revolution starts.

fivepointstar said:

There are so many people that don't understand 4A and they think the LEO ignore 4A and step all over citizens rights. I don't want to call it "ignorance" but for a lack of a better term it is, just not knowing the perameters of seach and seizure.

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Amen. I've been doing this for 17+ years and dealt with hundreds of LEO's. I can say that I can recall less than 20 over the years that I felt truly didn't give a damn about Constitutional rights. No one wants to go to court and have a Judge say they did something wrong and see a case get tossed.

fivepointstar said:

I see that they don't understand "reasonable suspicion" and "probable cause" and think HEY the 4th Amendment is DEAD!!!

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LEO's always have my sympathy intrying to make sense of such a complicated area of the law on the street and in split second situations. I still come across situations and fact patterns I have never seen and have to spend time researching the law on a weekly basis. Trying to make sense of it all can be frustrating. Instead of bright lines our system has opted for nebulous terms like 'totality of the circumstances' and 'probable cause'

fivepointstar said:

Everyone has thier place

-Legislature write the law
-Judiciary interpret the law
-police enforce the law
-OSA prosecute the law
-CD make sure that everyone is kept in check.

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Absolutely. People forget that it is the criminal justice SYSTEM and like all systems it requires that all of its parts work if it is going to function. Professional police, competent prosecutors and defense attorneys and good judges are needed. No matter which side of the fence I am on I always prefer dealing with professionals.

urbanwarrior said:

Anyway, if your job has nothing that would require the need for a gun then I see no reason to have a cow about it. Carry to work, if you have a CCW, and then unload it and lock it in the trunk while at work and then re-arm when you leave. This can be risky if someone sees you do this and decides they want your gun and they break into your car while you're at work. The chance of someone being involved in a workplace shooting is probably more than a million to one.

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My numbers are rusty and these are very rough estimates:

The odds of being shot at work is something like a thousand to one, but if you are not a convenience store clerk or a cab driver, I think the odds drops to a hundred thousand to one.
But that is also low when you realize the chance of getting seriously hurt in any attack, shooting and non-shooting, goes up to about one in twenty, and if you are not a convenience store clerk or a cab driver the odds is still about one in a few hundred or so for being attacked and one in maybe a thousand for getting hurt and one in maybe one in a few thousand of getting seriously hurt or killed.

Workplace shootings is also a skewed number to look at even when ignoring convenience store clerks and cab drivers. When you realize most of them only involve a few victims (usually the target and a bystander or two), you see they do happen more often than we see in the national news. Only a certain number involve a current employee and those are actually very rare nowadays, but being attacked or attacked and shot by an outsider is not so rare and can be said to be almost common.

Carry to work, if you have a CCW, and then unload it and lock it in the trunk while at work and then re-arm when you leave. This can be risky if someone sees you do this and decides they want your gun and they break into your car while you're at work. The chance of someone being involved in a workplace shooting is probably more than a million to one.

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With the exception of conenience store clerks, bank clerks and cab drivers, I think more people are robbed and attacked going to and from their car in the parking lot to or from work than they are while at work. I would have to look up the numbers to see if this is true, but even if I am wrong, we still know it happens and unless we are in a secure parking lot or garage, it would be when we are most vulnerable. So having a gun carried to and from the workplace to and from the car is when it is probably needed most.

In addition, there's the opportunity to be charged with "going armed in terror of the public" every time you pull a gun out from under your shirt and put it into your glove box, and then put it back in the holster should someone witness you doing this. Sure's it my car and thus my "castle", but I'd rather have be a nonissue than an issue for the courts. And yes, there is the safety issue where, rather than scream and call the police, that person goes ahead and gets a crowbar and steals your gun and then potentially robs you with your own gun a little later on.

Granted, it's a good idea to keep a concealed weapon concealed, but reducing the exposure of the weapon to nothing is far better (and again: safer!) than parking in the back of the parking lot and being covert about it. Definitely respect the right of property owners to declare who can carry weapons, concealed or openly, but don't just stop at the first "no". Make the effort to educate and help mitigate the "guns are bad" attitude.

Excellent points Charlie and Dst, but it once again brings us back to the topic title, Whats it worth to you? There is a great potential to be seen concealing your firearm in your vehicle, so why not take that into account. Scout out the parking that is available and choose the best possible spot, but once again it is risky...very risky. If it gets stolen form your vehicle expect to get a tongue lashing form the responding officer, and rightfully so. You have now put a gun in the hands of a criminal. So you have gone from being part of the solution to being a very real part of the problem. Not to mention you are now out of a considerable amount of money as well as a prized possession.
Hey Novus...with all the numbers about convenience store clerks and cab drivers....uh...where do police fit into those statistics??!!

Yes - back to the original question. Its not worth it to me unless I had some real and immediate danger. If thats the case I would pretty much do anything to protect my family and face the consequences. However carrying just because of the crime rate or a vague fear of crime is a no go for me. Too much to lose. Among other things I like my license to practice law.

urbanwarrior said:

Excellent points Charlie and Dst, but it once again brings us back to the topic title, Whats it worth to you? There is a great potential to be seen concealing your firearm in your vehicle, so why not take that into account. Scout out the parking that is available and choose the best possible spot, but once again it is risky...very risky. If it gets stolen form your vehicle expect to get a tongue lashing form the responding officer, and rightfully so. You have now put a gun in the hands of a criminal. So you have gone from being part of the solution to being a very real part of the problem. Not to mention you are now out of a considerable amount of money as well as a prized possession.
Hey Novus...with all the numbers about convenience store clerks and cab drivers....uh...where do police fit into those statistics??!!

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It has been a while since I looked, but I think the studies I saw excluded law enforcement figures. The UCR does collect those figures though.
As a police officer you have a greater than a one in ten chance of being assaulted at work this year: http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/killed/2007/officersassaulted.html

CharlieFoxtrot said:

Yes - back to the original question. Its not worth it to me unless I had some real and immediate danger. If thats the case I would pretty much do anything to protect my family and face the consequences. However carrying just because of the crime rate or a vague fear of crime is a no go for me. Too much to lose. Among other things I like my license to practice law.

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Agree 100%. After the tornado in 2001, I carried in the immediate neighborhood for a few days as streets were blocked and there was no police presence. There was some minor looting and robberies in Beltsville.

Once the cops could patrol, I no longer carried. Too much to lose to carry, except in extreme circumstances.

novus collectus said:

It has been a while since I looked, but I think the studies I saw excluded law enforcement figures. The UCR does collect those figures though.
As a police officer you have a greater than a one in ten chance of being assaulted at work this year: http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/killed/2007/officersassaulted.html

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Guess I'll continue with the shoot first mentality....rather be judged by 12 then carried by 6!