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Old November 22nd, 2021, 11:21 AM #21
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Originally Posted by Striper69 View Post
OK...have you ever taken a shot at a deer at 129 yards from a steep hill?
No. But I have at targets at 100, 125 and 150yds on a steep hill. And just throwing it in a ballistic calculator that can use angle doesn’t throw it off by much unless the shot is already almost missing.

https://shooterscalculator.com/balli...+Create+Graph+

Using the basic data for a .30-06, even shooting at a 29 degree angle, with a 100yd zero changes trajectory by less than an inch at 129yds vs shooting on the flat. Even with a 300yd zero it still only changes the POI by less than an inch.

Of course, if you’ve got a 300yd zero, the bullet is traveling over 5” above zero at around 120yds…which could be the problem if you are sighting your rifles for 300yd (or further) zeros and then not compensating close in. It is why I prefer using a BDC reticle or zeroing at 200yds and known hold overs, or for very long range (400+) a scope I could dial the dope on it using a laser range finder for the exact range. With a 200yd zero and most calibers you are fine to 300 with at most holding towards the top of their back when close to 300.

300yd zeros (or further) get really tricky at close ranges.

You mentioned 6” high at 100yds. You’d need to know the BC of the bullet and muzzle velocity, but that sounds pretty close to a 400yd zero. Just to emphasize, for accurate long range shooting, you need a BDC reticle that corresponds to the round being used and a laser rangefinder to know the exact range. Or a scope you can dial the dope on and a laser rangefinder. Otherwise it is just guessing and Kentucky Windage hoping you hit your target and kill it.

From 450 to 500yds on a 150gr .30-06 hunting load may be greater than 12” of drop.
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Old November 23rd, 2021, 05:01 AM #22
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Yeah, I need to see where it actually hits at 300 yards (which I can do at the range I use). I'm going by what the guy on "Guns And Amoo" said a couple of years ago on the tv show. He said the SF guys use a 300 yard zero by going 6 inches above bulls-eye. It seemed to be pretty close when I tried it then but I was using factory ammo at the time. Now I'm using handloads. The Dick who thinks he runs the range put big rolls of hay on the range so I couldn't continue to do the 300 yards shots. I think he was afraid people would also try it and shoot up the concrete strips he laid to mark yardages. I think he got over that.

From the spot we're using we can go to 1,000 yards or even more easily but they'll be downhill shots. I know we'll need to master them if we want to be successful when we go to Montana.
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Old November 23rd, 2021, 08:03 AM #23
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Hornady's ballistic app is pretty solid. It has a feature to set your shooting angle by sighting along your phone and measuring the tilt. It then calculates everything for you. I've got a variety of loads and rifles programmed into the favorites.
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Old November 23rd, 2021, 08:26 AM #24
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I don't care for the Hornady app. Its user friendly, but I don't trust its data.
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Old November 23rd, 2021, 08:35 AM #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Striper69 View Post
Me and a young friend went to the spot today. A deer came out about 400 yards away but stayed behind a bunch of tree limbs and I couldn't get a clear shot. Another deer about 600 yards away (according to me buddy with a range finder) came out. He missed a couple of times so I moved and took a shot at that one. He said I missed high 'cause he saw the dust fly up behind it. I missed a couple of more shots at the other deer and I assume they went high. He got the deer after I was through. He shot it high on the rear neck. It dropped but was still alive when we got down to it...
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Yeah, I need to see where it actually hits at 300 yards (which I can do at the range I use). I'm going by what the guy on "Guns And Amoo" said a couple of years ago on the tv show...
So you are missing deer at 120 yards, flinging shots at deer at "about" 400 and 600 yards, but have never shot your dope at those distances, or even as close as 300?
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Old November 23rd, 2021, 08:37 AM #26
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I use strelok so I can tweak the BC to match real world findings. Several companies inflate their numbers to sell bullets.
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Old November 23rd, 2021, 09:15 AM #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Striper69 View Post
Yeah, I need to see where it actually hits at 300 yards (which I can do at the range I use). I'm going by what the guy on "Guns And Amoo" said a couple of years ago on the tv show. He said the SF guys use a 300 yard zero by going 6 inches above bulls-eye. It seemed to be pretty close when I tried it then but I was using factory ammo at the time. Now I'm using handloads. The Dick who thinks he runs the range put big rolls of hay on the range so I couldn't continue to do the 300 yards shots. I think he was afraid people would also try it and shoot up the concrete strips he laid to mark yardages. I think he got over that.

From the spot we're using we can go to 1,000 yards or even more easily but they'll be downhill shots. I know we'll need to master them if we want to be successful when we go to Montana.
I guess it just depends. Are you looking at trying to go to Montana for a marksmanship competition, or hunting? If you've got mouths to feed and no other reasonable options, meat is meat. But typically shooting at animals past a distance you can be pretty confident of your marksmanship skills isn't particularly ethical. And 1000yd shots isn't really hunting, just shooting at living things. Even a good marksman with a very good rifle and a good load is likely to have a 5-8" CEP on their shots at 1000yds, assuming otherwise perfect conditions. You are likely to hit the animal if the stars align and you do your job right. Not very likely to be a good hit and the bullet is likely going slow enough at that point to not be a quickly fatal hit unless shooting something VERY hot and heavy. Most bullets aren't going to expand properly at 1700fps and under. Fora 180gr 300 win mag load, that is likely to be in the 700yd range it is going to drop slow enough to make expansion unlikely. I guess you could get a 338lm for those 1000yd shots. A more typical "good" rifle, with field conditions and a bipod, you'd probably be lucky to get 3 rounds in a 20" circle at 1000yds even with some practice at those kinds of ranges (you'll need to be very precise in the range and dope calculations. a 20yd difference is several inches, slight variations in the wind easily push the round several inches for just a 1mph wind speed difference).
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Old November 23rd, 2021, 09:24 AM #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Striper69 View Post
Me and a young friend went to the spot today. A deer came out about 400 yards away but stayed behind a bunch of tree limbs and I couldn't get a clear shot. Another deer about 600 yards away (according to me buddy with a range finder) came out. He missed a couple of times so I moved and took a shot at that one. He said I missed high 'cause he saw the dust fly up behind it. I missed a couple of more shots at the other deer and I assume they went high. He got the deer after I was through. He shot it high on the rear neck. It dropped but was still alive when we got down to it.

I had just zeroed my rifle 6 inches high at 100 yards. I'll try again this week by aiming low on the deer. I'll also check it out at exactly 300 yards. The load is 150 grain Hornady SST bullet- 72.0 grain IMR 4350 powder and a magnum rifle primer.
holy crap you guys need to figure your crap out. taking potshots at any animal is just not ethical. shooting at distance isn't easy peasy but certainly if you don't know your ballistics, dope, shooting form, accuracy etc it is impossible.
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Old November 24th, 2021, 03:59 AM #29
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Originally Posted by lazarus View Post
I guess it just depends. Are you looking at trying to go to Montana for a marksmanship competition, or hunting? If you've got mouths to feed and no other reasonable options, meat is meat. But typically shooting at animals past a distance you can be pretty confident of your marksmanship skills isn't particularly ethical. And 1000yd shots isn't really hunting, just shooting at living things. Even a good marksman with a very good rifle and a good load is likely to have a 5-8" CEP on their shots at 1000yds, assuming otherwise perfect conditions. You are likely to hit the animal if the stars align and you do your job right. Not very likely to be a good hit and the bullet is likely going slow enough at that point to not be a quickly fatal hit unless shooting something VERY hot and heavy. Most bullets aren't going to expand properly at 1700fps and under. Fora 180gr 300 win mag load, that is likely to be in the 700yd range it is going to drop slow enough to make expansion unlikely. I guess you could get a 338lm for those 1000yd shots. A more typical "good" rifle, with field conditions and a bipod, you'd probably be lucky to get 3 rounds in a 20" circle at 1000yds even with some practice at those kinds of ranges (you'll need to be very precise in the range and dope calculations. a 20yd difference is several inches, slight variations in the wind easily push the round several inches for just a 1mph wind speed difference).
Shooting those 1,000 yard shots would just be for fun. I just mentioned it because we could easily do it. 300 would be my hunting limit for now.
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Old November 24th, 2021, 03:59 AM #30
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I checked how the rifle shoots at 200 yards first today. It was shooting over a foot high so I went to 100 yards and brought it down to 2 inches above bulls-eye. That put the shot at bulls-eye at 200 yards. 300 yards was a little below that so I think I'm good.
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