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Old Today, 12:48 PM #61
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Originally Posted by Fedora View Post
Cannot active / retired police carry widely without knowing the particular carry restrictions of the states they are transiting? How does the LEOSA address this issue?
I don't think it does. Anyway, police are presumed to know the law.

Police get special carve outs for lots of gun laws, including rifle and magazine bans.

Again, i dont agree with it. There are lots of good counter arguments, but I think that they will fall on deaf ears in the 9th, 2nd, and 3rd circuits.
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Old Today, 01:26 PM #62
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Originally Posted by camo556 View Post
this.

States (and DC) will say that they can require training in the peculiar laws of self defense in that jurisdiction, along with training on where the sensitive places are. What you are allowed to do in FL and TX is not the same as what you can lawfully do in a duty to retreat state like MD. The counter argument of course is that hunting training is almost universally recognized, for example the TX online course counts to a MD hunting license (and apparently HQL), while hunting and game laws are completely different. A lot of reciprocity we see (like Drivers licenses) is not through courts forcing the issue, its through state compacts and uniform agreement on training standards. Congress could impose universal training requirements, but would we really want that? I cant see any state thats now constitutional carry wanting Congress to impose standards.

States may be forced to offer non resident permits, and also be forced to cut training some like 4 hours, but I am skeptical courts will force full reciprocity. If you want to carry in NYC, the 2nd circuit will say "gee we dont want a lot of vigilantes from the south, you need to prove you know the law before you carry" and allow NYC specific training. And btw NY gun laws are byzantine, so 16 hours seems appropriate.

I am not saying i agree with this, but asking CCW permit holders to know the law before they carry seems like an ask a judge will have a hard time turning down.
All very good points. It is exactly the reason why I think the courts will say that a state has the option. They (The state) can opt for one of three choices. They can go With Permitless Constitutional Carry, they can do reciprocity for all States, or they can issue NR permits. I spose they could do a combination of the last two, in that they would recognize some state permits and require residents of those states they don’t recognize to get a NR permit. However I would see that being challenged in the courts for 14A rights and discrimination. So I think a state will go one of those three ways.

It goes along the lines of what the Georgia Supreme Court did many many years ago and told the state that it was unconstitutional to ban both open and conceal carry. That the state could ban one or the other but not both. So GA went for open carry. As of today, GA has Permitless open carry, but a shall issue permit for conceal carry. Louisiana Is the same way.

As an Instructor I will agree with you when it comes to training, and what laws a “problem” state might implement when it comes to training.

They might require more hours of training.

Texas for being a constitutional carry state is only one of a few states that require state specific specialized training.

Most other states only require NRA Basic Pistol or similar. No training on the laws, other then signing a statement that you understand the state laws.

Texas though you can take the course online, then seek out an instructor for shooting qualification.

Legal laws training can easily be done online.

If states would allow NRA/USCCA courses with legal online trading in to suffice. That would NOT be a bad thing.

Of the 11 LTC’s I have. Only 3 required State specific training. Utah, Illinois, and Texas. Everyone else accepted NRA basic Pistol Instructor as being enough. i am an NRA, Illinois & Maryland Instructor, and within the next 90 days I will be a Utah and Texas Instructor as well.

What’s crazy are the states that still want an instructor to take the course that they teach to get a permit., and to retake for renewal!

I know of instructors that are just signing off on each other’s trainings along with doing actual live fire qualification if needed. Crazy and stupid. At least for Illinois, which requires a 3hr renewal class every 5 years, is not required of instructors. The whole purpose of the 3 hr renewal is to update permit holders on new laws and to do a live fire requalification of their shooting.
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Old Today, 06:49 PM #63
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Originally Posted by motorcoachdoug View Post
Heck how much for the Oregon case? I have relatives in Oregon and I do travel out that way to visit my aunt and my first cousin as well. I have my Utah and would like to be able to carry concealed but alas no joy..
I would point out most of Oregon is unlicensed open carry. The plaintiff would probably need to be someone who visits the several cities with open carry bans or else they'll tell you you can just OC when you're here.
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