Red Flag info mtg Edgewater AAPD

BeoBill · Apr 23, 2019

TexDefender said:
I was wondering was she ever charged with anything? Seems at least perjury would be suitable?

Because the way the law is written there is no punishment for lying (paraphrased from bill-ese).

BeoBill · Apr 23, 2019

AAPD has never (to my limited knowledge) answered the question of where Willis was shot (i.e., in the front, side or back). :shrug:

basscat · Apr 23, 2019

BeoBill said:
AAPD has never (to my limited knowledge) answered the question of where Willis was shot (i.e., in the front, side or back).

And they never will.

fidelity · Apr 23, 2019

BeoBill said:
Because the way the law is written there is no punishment for lying (paraphrased from bill-ese).

I believe it has to proven that the perjury was willful/malicious which may be hard to demonstrate. Not sure if there is a lesser standard (perhaps whether the accuser acted like a reasonable person) that could have been employed in the law instead to deter specious or false allegations. Of course it wouldn't be as the red flag law is designed to protect the accuser.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

TexDefender · Apr 23, 2019

fidelity said:
I believe it has to proven that the perjury was willful/malicious which may be hard to demonstrate. Not sure if there is a lesser standard (perhaps whether the accuser acted like a reasonable person) that could have been employed in the law instead to deter specious or false allegations. Of course it wouldn't be as the red flag law is designed to protect the accuser.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

I thought she freely admitted she did it because she was merely upset with him.

fidelity · Apr 23, 2019

TexDefender said:
I thought she freely admitted she did it because she was merely upset with him.

If I remember the reporting, it was a niece of the guy that was red flagged who suggested that (1) he wasn't a threat to anyone and (2) the person who red flagged him (his sister?) had always had a contentious relationship with the guy that was killed. I don't think that even the person who red flagged him said that he threatened to kill or harm her (based on what might have been leaked from the red flag order).

Not sure if anyone got a statement from the party that requested the red flag. I'd love to see it if it's out there.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

Deep Lurker · Apr 23, 2019

Senate was explicitly warned during the 2018 bill testimony about lying in the Red Flag petition:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GVU_keAXXbg

inkd · Apr 23, 2019

fidelity said:
If I remember the reporting, it was a niece of the guy that was red flagged who suggested that (1) he wasn't a threat to anyone and (2) the person who red flagged him (his sister?) had always had a contentious relationship with the guy that was killed. I don't think that even the person who red flagged him said that he threatened to kill or harm her (based on what might have been leaked from the red flag order).

Not sure if anyone got a statement from the party that requested the red flag. I'd love to see it if it's out there.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

https://foxbaltimore.com/news/local...l-co-police-confirm-officer-involved-shooting

Dead guys sister filed the ERPO. Family say he wasn’t dangerous just "strongly opinionated."

Police were called to the residence the evening before due to a dispute between family members over the care of an elderly relative.

The sister filed the ERPO and police came back the next day to serve it. We all know what happened next.

This law stinks all to hell. Anyone here that remotely believes that anything about this law is, in any way, good is a fvcking idiot.

dblas · Apr 23, 2019

Combloc said:
I guess it depends on what your neighbors think of firearms, how libtard they are and whether or not they know about red flag laws. Do you think there is any possibility that, if you lived beside a rabid, moronic gun-grabber, they might want to make life hard on you because they think only police and military should have firearms? Do you think that, if you lived beside AOC, she might "turn you in" because she thinks you are a white male and dangerous because of that?

In all my years, I never gave it a thought until marylifornia started going WAY over the center line and into the oncoming traffic left lane. I thought people were just being paranoid. I don't think that so much anymore. I see "vote democrat" and "impeach Trump" signs in my development. I'd lay money on it that some of those people might take exception to me toting an M249 out to the truck. It only takes one idiot to call one "I am the law" cop. We live in the new age of McCarthyism my friend. Hell, there are fudds at my local range, a place where, of all places, I should feel like everyone supports the 2nd Amendment, that have actually asked me questions like, "Is that even legal??" or "Why do you need to own something like that??" One guy, who is a Vietnam veteran of all things, HATES that I show up with "military weapons" and gives me a hard time every time he sees me. He asks thing like "What the hell is that?" and "Are you even hitting the berm?" I do NOTHING crazy or Rambo. I just show up and shoot like everyone else but it just seems to drive him nuts that I'm showing up with anything other than a hunting or competition rifle in .22 caliber. I'm respectful in my answers but all it potentially takes is him pissed off and one call. I really don't think people understand how unbelievably dangerous this new law can be.

So, yes, you might want to think about whether or not your neighbors know you own firearms. Unfortunately, these things are just a sad reality of modern Amerika.

In a word, NO.

Why? Because if you read Maryland law on ERPOs, your neighbor who hates guns, no matter how much they want to, CANNOT initiate an ERPO against you.

People need to read the laws and then ask questions on what they don't understand about the law, before they comment on them.

basscat · Apr 23, 2019

dblas said:
In a word, NO.

Why? Because if you read Maryland law on ERPOs, your neighbor who hates guns, no matter how much they want to, CANNOT initiate an ERPO against you.

People need to read the laws and then ask questions on what they don't understand about the law, before they comment on them.

Technically your right but there's nothing stopping them from voicing their concerns to the police then the police can apply for the ERPO.

inkd · Apr 23, 2019

dblas said:
In a word, NO.

Why? Because if you read Maryland law on ERPOs, your neighbor who hates guns, no matter how much they want to, CANNOT initiate an ERPO against you.

People need to read the laws and then ask questions on what they don't understand about the law, before they comment on them.

A neighbor cannot.

But, a law enforcement officer can.

inkd · Apr 23, 2019

basscat said:
Technically your right but there's nothing stopping them from voicing their concerns to the police then the police can apply for the ERPO.

You beat me to it. :thumbsup:

ironpony · Apr 23, 2019

Served at 5:00 am to a person known to be able defend themselves in a dangerous neighborhood WTF. Did they expect this brand new law to go smoothly? Simply illogical to take the most offensive procedures to serve and protect.

Asking the guy in charge of flags is pointless, we know how the law is written ... he can’t make the process easier for the guilty party being served. Now that the public knows one may be killed, how do you act when someone knocks on your door at an unusual hour??

Not even an investigation into the shooting?? Absolutely nothing can come from one ... it’s the petitioners word against, well too late.

So if they were at this guys house once already their views could be tainted before knocking.

Anyway.....

dblas · Apr 23, 2019

basscat said:
Technically your right but there's nothing stopping them from voicing their concerns to the police then the police can apply for the ERPO.

This has been gone over in several other red flag threads. The police WILL NOT just go and get an ERPO against me on your say so (as a disgruntled neighbor), they will first investigate the issue to see if there is an actual issue. Jesus, the fear mongering in some of these threads is why I left MDS in the first place. I see it is coming back again, so I may just check out again. If people don't want to read the law, then fine, but do not make a supposition that is not backed by either fact or the law, or a comment about the law that has no basis in fact.

3paul10 · Apr 23, 2019

ironpony said:
Served at 5:00 am to a person known to be able defend themselves in a dangerous neighborhood WTF. Did they expect this brand new law to go smoothly? Simply illogical to take the most offensive procedures to serve and protect.

Asking the guy in charge of flags is pointless, we know how the law is written ... he can’t make the process easier for the guilty party being served. Now that the public knows one may be killed, how do you act when someone knocks on your door at an unusual hour??

Not even an investigation into the shooting?? Absolutely nothing can come from one ... it’s the petitioners word against, well too late.

So if they were at this guys house once already their views could be tainted before knocking.

Anyway.....

Do you really think a police involved shooting is not investigated?

dblas · Apr 23, 2019

inkd said:
A neighbor cannot.

But, a law enforcement officer can.

Not without first making an investigation. Not just on your sayso....See my reply above about the fear mongering around here.

inkd · Apr 23, 2019

dblas said:
Not without first making an investigation. Not just on your sayso....See my reply above about the fear mongering around here.

On the top right of the tool bar, a little under and to the right of your screen name is a tab that says "Log out".

Feel free to use it. Don't let the door hit you in the ass.

Occam · Apr 23, 2019

dblas said:
Not without first making an investigation.

If the complaint is from (for example) the next door neighbor who swears you're dangerous/threatening, etc., and that IS the only person the cop can investigate without tipping their potential hand on the pending ERPO, isn't it sill just a he-said-she-said (except he gets no said)?

If if a single complainant/witness ISN'T enough to get an ERPO filed against someone (via the police, who have standing before the judge), then doesn't that sort of defeat the purpose of the mechanism in the first place? What if a douchebag neighbor with guns actually DOES say a bunch of threatening stuff and the person making the complaint does, legitimately recognize a dire threat ... would the cop choose not to do the ERPO dance because all they have is one person's say-so? Seems like it would all come down to perceived honesty and/or acting skills. And because the perception of a threat is so subjective, the person making the complaint can avoid the perjury charge by saying that's honestly how they perceived things. Again, we're just back to whether the cop is in the mood or not to take that complaint to a judge and come back in a few hours to disarm the neighbor.

dblas · Apr 23, 2019

Occam said:
If the complaint is from (for example) the next door neighbor who swears you're dangerous/threatening, etc., and that IS the only person the cop can investigate without tipping their potential hand on the pending ERPO, isn't it sill just a he-said-she-said (except he gets no said)?

If if a single complainant/witness ISN'T enough to get an ERPO filed against someone (via the police, who have standing before the judge), then doesn't that sort of defeat the purpose of the mechanism in the first place? What if a douchebag neighbor with guns actually DOES say a bunch of threatening stuff and the person making the complaint does, legitimately recognize a dire threat ... would the cop choose not to do the ERPO dance because all they have is one person's say-so? Seems like it would all come down to perceived honesty and/or acting skills. And because the perception of a threat is so subjective, the person making the complaint can avoid the perjury charge by saying that's honestly how they perceived things. Again, we're just back to whether the cop is in the mood or not to take that complaint to a judge and come back in a few hours to disarm the neighbor.

Having asked those questions to LE leaders here in PG County as well as the PG SA, the answer to the above is no. LE in PG is not permitted to initiate an ERPO on a neighbors say so without first investigating the allegations. Again, people need to stop with the what if and actually ask questions to get answers instead of playing these damned guessing games.

dblas · Apr 23, 2019

inkd said:
On the top right of the tool bar, a little under and to the right of your screen name is a tab that says "Log out".

Feel free to use it. Don't let the door hit you in the ass.

Glad to see you are in the camp of not asking questions and just going on "what ifs"...Noted.

Red Flag info mtg Edgewater AAPD

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

Crank in the Third Row

Crank in the Third Row

Ultimate Member

piled higher and deeper

Ultimate Member

piled higher and deeper

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Past President, MSI

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Member

Past President, MSI

Ultimate Member

Past President, MSI

Ultimate Member

Not Even ONE Indictment

Past President, MSI

Past President, MSI

Users who are viewing this thread

Log in

Forum statistics