Carrying In National Parks

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  • Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    So the Park Service does enforce state laws.

    No, they enforce the Federal law that says that National Parks follow the laws of the state where they are located.

    A seemingly slight, but actually significant difference.
     

    silentdynasty

    Member
    Apr 7, 2017
    82
    MoCo
    Guess you want to take risks and be in trouble. I would not because it seems very complicated when it comes to interpreting the laws. Point blank.
     

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    55,394
    Westminster USA
    How complicated is "follow the laws of the state the park is located in?"

    RIF

    I got a ME permit so I can legally carry in Arcadia National Park because ME law requires it or a reciprocal state's resident permit, as ME does not recognize NR permits. The NPS follows ME law.

    BGOS syndrome rears it's ugly head yet again.
     

    esqappellate

    President, MSI
    Feb 12, 2012
    7,407
    I wish that were true. Carry in national parks is up to the laws of the state it is in. For example, to carry in Acadia you have to have a Maine permit. Maryland law states specifically no carry in State or Federal parks even if you have an unrestricted W&C permit.

    Actually, MD law makes it illegal to carry in a STATE park, by regulation. It does not address carry in a federal park.
     

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    55,394
    Westminster USA
    ME State Police have amended their stance on permits in Arcadia National Park. Either a ME permit or a permit from a reciprocal state will be legal. ME does not recognize any NR permits however, so if we want to carry there, get a ME permit. I did
     

    govwontletmebuycoolguns

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 3, 2010
    3,879
    DPRM
    What about National Wilderness, such as Dolly Sods? I would assume that since the state is now constitutional carry, the same would apply there (and I haven't found anything in the Googlesphere that would contradict that position, other than that long guns may still be prohibited on Sundays).
     

    nedsurf

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 8, 2013
    2,204
    Dolly Sods is a designated wilderness area which is inside a National Forest. National Forests are managed be the US Forest Service, an agency within the dept. Of agriculture.

    The above mentioned 2009 Credit Card Act provisions only pertain to National Parks and National Wildlife Refuges. Both types of public lands are managed by their respective agencies within the dept. of the interior.

    It would have to be some other law or regulation that permits one to carry on National Forest lands. I am not aware of that sort of law but that does not mean it does not exist.
     

    DC-W

    Ultimate Member
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 23, 2013
    25,290
    ️‍
    Dolly Sods is a designated wilderness area which is inside a National Forest. National Forests are managed be the US Forest Service, an agency within the dept. Of agriculture.

    The above mentioned 2009 Credit Card Act provisions only pertain to National Parks and National Wildlife Refuges. Both types of public lands are managed by their respective agencies within the dept. of the interior.

    It would have to be some other law or regulation that permits one to carry on National Forest lands. I am not aware of that sort of law but that does not mean it does not exist.

    https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5066182.pdf

    Laws Regarding Firearms on National Forest Lands
    First, the primary laws governing possession of firearms and other weapons on National
    Forest are State Laws. These laws were developed by the states following establishment
    of our Cooperative Wildlife Management Agreements. Most notable of the state laws
    concerns controlling firearms on the National Forest are “cased gun laws”.
    Cased Gun Laws: As the name implies, this law requires that all firearms on National
    Forest be unloaded and kept in a case. Virginia and West Virginia have similar “cased
    gun laws”. In order to allow hunting, these laws make an exception.
    • It is legal to have loaded firearms on National Forest during the authorized
    general firearms and muzzle loading gun seasons for bear, deer, grouse, pheasant,
    quail, rabbit, raccoon, squirrel, turkey, or waterfowl. This exception is very
    specific and applies only during the period when it is legal to take these listed
    species and doesn’t include carrying the loaded weapons in a vehicle.
    • Because hunting on Sunday is prohibited, carrying a loaded gun on National
    Forest is not legal on Sunday even if it is the Sunday in the middle of the general
    firearms deer season.
    • The second exception to this law allows people with a concealed weapon permit
    to carry a loaded, concealed, handgun either on their person or in their vehicle
    while on National Forest. This does not apply if the person is engaged in a
    primitive weapons season or chase only season.
    • People muzzle loading or bow hunting may carry a concealed weapon as long as
    they possess a concealed weapon permit.
    Discharging a firearm, crossbow, or bow and arrow in or across a road or within
    the right-of-way of any road is prohibited by both State and Federal Law.
    Any person convicted of a felony may not legally possess firearms on National Forest.
    Reckless use or handling firearms: It is a violation of both Federal and State law to
    handle any firearm in a careless and reckless manner or hunt while under the influence of
    intoxicants or narcotic drugs.
     

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    55,394
    Westminster USA
    Who is advocating for illegal activities?
    :rolleyes:
    how about this? even a question asking about something illegal is a bad idea.

    RIF.

    Having just gotten my national parks card, if like to visit some national parks and am planning on getting a Virginia permit. To me, it's horribly unfair that some people can carry guns in a wilderness area with no cops and few rangers, and others can't.

    Is it a good idea to carry anyway and be discreet, or is it a bad idea?

    Thanks!
     

    DC-W

    Ultimate Member
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 23, 2013
    25,290
    ️‍
    handgunlaw.us says it's ok.
    http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/FAQ.pdf

    #6 Question: Can I carry in a National Park/National Wildlife Refuge?
    Answer: Yes on February 22, 2010. The law was struck down and then passed again and does not take effect
    till February 22, 2010. When the law goes into effect if you can legally carry a concealed firearm in the state
    the National Park/National Wildlife Refuge is located in you are legal to carry in NP’s/ NWMA’s in that state.
    If you can not legally carry concealed in the state you are in then you can not carry in the NP’s/NWMA’s in that
    state. You can not carry into any federally owned buildings in National Parks/National Wildlife Refuges as
    other federal laws ban the carrying of firearms in federal buildings.
    Note: National Monuments, National Preserves, National Historic Sites/Parks, National Rivers, National
    Memorials, National Recreation Areas and National Seashores all fall under the National Park Service which
    the Department of Interior operates. This means all these places listed allow carry there if you can legally carry
    in the state the above mentioned are located. Do be aware that all buildings used for official business are off
    limits. See 18 USC Sec 930 below. Federal Buildings must be posted or you must be informed they are a
    federal building.

    and

    #7 Question: Can I carry in National Forests?
    Answer: Some states have state laws against carrying in a National Forest. You must be aware of the state
    law. There is no Federal Law restricting Concealed Carry in a National Forest. You can see if carry in National
    Forests in any state is legal by clicking on the state on the main page map you want info about. That states page
    will open when you click on the map. Do be advised that any building on the National Forest belonging to the
    Federal Government is off limits to concealed carry even if you can legally carry in the National Forest in that
    state. They are considered Federal Buildings.

    http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/westvirginia.pdf

    Carry Allowed in these Areas:
    State Parks: YES WVDNR St. Park Carry
    State/National Forests: YES Per WVDNR
    State WMA’s: YES Per WVDNR
    Road Side Rest Areas: YES §61-7-11a.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,877
    The USFS rules to follow the surrounding States carry laws predate the 2009 Credit Card Bill. That was the inspiration, to bring National Parks in line with National Forrests.

    Main thing left is to address carry in properties administered by Corps of Engineers . ( Yes, ACE has lots of properties with lots of acres open to public for recreation, camping, hunting, etc )
     

    nedsurf

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 8, 2013
    2,204
    Agreed. It looks like state law dictates for natl. Forest service land as well. I think I read a provision in the SHARE act currently going through congress that addresses the ACE lands.
     

    DC-W

    Ultimate Member
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 23, 2013
    25,290
    ️‍
    If carry is prohibited in "state parks"
    Then carry is prohibited in the "national park" in that state.

    Carry is prohibited in state parks in MD.



    Yup

    http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/maryland.pdf

    Carry In State Parks//WMA/Road Side Rest Areas & St. /Nat. Forests
    Carry Allowed in these Areas:
    State Parks: NO Admin Code 08.07.06.04
    State/National Forests: NO See Admin Code 08.07.01.04
    State WMA’s: Unknown
    Road Side Rest Areas: YES per MSP and Admin Code 11.04.07.12
     

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