How do you compensate for arrow spine being too stiff?

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  • Huuman

    Active Member
    Jul 20, 2019
    151
    Draw length is 28 inches.

    I'm shooting Carbon Express Mayhem Hunter DS in 350 spine cut down to 28 inches with 100gr field points. Got them for hunting bow set at 60lbs passed down to me.

    My practice bow is set at 40lb and grouping with the arrows are all over the place.

    So should I just go get 400 spines arrows for practice setup?

    I understand that there could be alot of reasons why my grouping is wide (torque, forms, etc but I would like to focus on if i'm using proper arrows for this thread).

    From what I read you should never go up in lbs until you are ready.

    I have a few uncut 32 inches arrows left from the pack, can I try longer arrow with a 125gr fieldpoint? Would that help with grouping? I heard when it come to incorrect arrow spine, lesser of two evils is arrow being too stiff. Any advices? Thank you very much.
     

    Devonian

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 15, 2008
    1,199
    You should get arrows for your practice setup.
    But for over spined arrows you can add more weight to the tip until they fly right. My concern would be you forget what point weight you have on and shoot them with your 60# bow which could be dangerous.
    Sounds like you already know the right answer.
     

    sgt23preston

    USMC LLA. NRA Life Member
    May 19, 2011
    3,994
    Perry Hall
    In General the Spline of an Arrow is only good for a narrow range of Bow Weights at 28"...

    You need to decide whether you intend to shoot at 40 pounds or 60 pounds & then choose the correct arrows for your 2 bows...

    A better choice would be to just use 1 bow & buy the correct arrows for it...

    A good local archery shop would be your best source of GOOD information...

    Otherwise you are just wasting your time & money...

    Also check out an Archery Forum =

    https://www.archerytalk.com/vb/

    https://www.lancasterarchery.com/?gclid=Cj0KCQjwiYL3BRDVARIsAF9E4Gcl94LdqMfbOijSySQarWuEiEtE_XDHPCYw4fiI92wtlstRqhY4Y8IaAhoWEALw_wcB
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,815
    @60#×28" I'm thinking you should be shooting a 400 spine, but over spine is ok. Under spine is bad.
     

    Archeryrob

    Undecided on a great many things
    Mar 7, 2013
    3,064
    Washington Co. - Fairplay
    I don't know She-I-it about carbon arrows, but the law of dynamic spine for fixing wood arrows is listed below and I would think it has to be the same or similar as physics, you know. If you try reducing spice by point weights.
    every inch an arrow is cut is gets 5# stiffer
    ever inch longer than 28" 5# softer
    Every 25 grains in point weight reduced under 125 it get 5# stiffer
    Every 25 grains in point weight increased over 125 it get 5# softer

    What outrider said, you want over spined in a center shot bow. It does not need to bend around the bow to clear it.
     

    Huuman

    Active Member
    Jul 20, 2019
    151
    Thank you for the information. I was a little confused about the important of spine in compound bow since it shouldnt need to clear the bow during flexing. I think I understand softer arrow being overpowered by the string's strength and front/back wobblying. But I dont quiet understand why too strong a spine is an issue unless you are way under poundage.

    Either way I guess I should find some 400 spine, seem like they are the most versitile strength. Thank you again.
     

    Horseman308

    Active Member
    Jan 27, 2016
    222
    Thank you for the information. I was a little confused about the important of spine in compound bow since it shouldnt need to clear the bow during flexing. I think I understand softer arrow being overpowered by the string's strength and front/back wobblying. But I dont quiet understand why too strong a spine is an issue unless you are way under poundage.



    Either way I guess I should find some 400 spine, seem like they are the most versitile strength. Thank you again.
    The arrow still has paradox, whatever bow it's being shot from. An arrow that is too over-spined will still have trouble recovering before hitting the target at most bowhuntibg ranges.

    What kind of rest and release are you shooting?

    Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
     

    aklax11

    Active Member
    Jan 8, 2015
    531
    How far are you shooting that you're getting poor groups? What's a poor group for you?

    I'm no expert but I read that spine matters much much more for recurves/trad bows, much less so for compounds. Therefore as outrider58 said, overspining should be okay. Have you checked arrow straightness with a spinner? Combined with some mildly bent arrows and non-bare shaft tuned shafts, that would prob contribute more to poor groups at short (<40 yards) distance for the avg archer vs. overspining by a smidge.

    Hope that helps.
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,815
    How far are you shooting that you're getting poor groups? What's a poor group for you?

    I'm no expert but I read that spine matters much much more for recurves/trad bows, much less so for compounds. Therefore as outrider58 said, overspining should be okay. Have you checked arrow straightness with a spinner? Combined with some mildly bent arrows and non-bare shaft tuned shafts, that would prob contribute more to poor groups at short (<40 yards) distance for the avg archer vs. overspining by a smidge.

    Hope that helps.
    I'm no engineer, but I'd think a compound passing let-off introduces a ton of torque on an under spined arrow through the shot sequence. A severely under spined arrow can break in half before it leaves the nock.
     

    gtodave

    Member
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 14, 2007
    14,169
    Mt Airy
    Why are you practicing with a different bow than what you will hunt with? Everything should be the same...same bow, same arrows, same shooting position, etc. Otherwise you are setting yourself up for failure.
     

    Huuman

    Active Member
    Jul 20, 2019
    151
    Got some 400 spine arrows cut to 28 inches. Group is getting tighter. Also tried using a handheld thumb release. I'm conflicted because it feel nice, but its going to take alot of practice not to punch myself (done that 4 times already, lost 2 arrows). I dont know if I'll ever use a back tension. I know its what most of the advance archers uses, but it just so alien to me. I know it could be confirmation biases but I read that Levi Morgan said back tension is not for everyone. He doesnt use it because most modern bows have a really solid back wall and it doesnt always allow for a clean tension release.

    Why are you practicing with a different bow than what you will hunt with? Everything should be the same...same bow, same arrows, same shooting position, etc. Otherwise you are setting yourself up for failure.

    The bow that I will be hunting with has 60-70 lbs range. I have it setup at 60lbs and can shot it around 40 times before fatigue start setting in. I want to be able to practice form with a 40lbs bow that I can shot without getting tire for a long time. I can feel muscle improvement, its way easier to pull my hunting bow now than 5 months ago.

    The hunting bow has been tune by a shop. My practice bow is basically also my learning bow, I been DIY tuning and learning how to do things myself. it help me understand effect of detail adjustment without messing up my hunting bow.
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,815
    You might think about getting on the weights. Rear flies and bent over pullups, both done with dumbells.
    Sitting all day in the freezing cold and then trying to draw that bow is going to feel like your hundredth shot at 70 lbs...if you can get it back at all.

    As far as back releases go, they can take a long time to get used to. I modified my trigger release so the yoke is real short. When I come to full draw, I simply close my hand around it until it goes off. No punch. No target panic.
     

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