Don't relax until the encounter is truly over

Trekker · Mar 14, 2012

http://news.yahoo.com/police-4-stabbed-ohio-downtown-office-building-175818957.html

I read the following article above and the point that stuck in my mind came from the following:

1) "the suspect confronted one victim inside the building near Miami-Jacobs Career College."
2) "other people inside intervened and took away one knife the suspect was using."
3)"Weiner (police spokesman) says those who intervened didn't realize suspect had a second knife."
4)"Three male victims are in critical condition, while a fourth man has minor injuries."

The lesson to take away from this, as I see it, is don't relax and congratulate yourself until the opponent is well and truly out of the fight.

Tom Perroni · Mar 27, 2012

The lesson to take away from this, as I see it, is don't get involved if you are not trained to handle the situation.

Call the police...that is what we are here for. Those folks are lucky they are not dead. :cool:

Trekker · Mar 28, 2012

Tom Perroni said:
The lesson to take away from this, as I see it, is don't get involved if you are not trained to handle the situation.

I agree with this 100%. With no training or ability to deal with the situation you can only add to the workload for the EMTs. I have had several years training in a martial art, but would rather put my running ability to work than be forced to test knife defense techniques.

Tom Perroni said:
Call the police...that is what we are here for. Those folks are lucky they are not dead.

Without a doubt, I would call the police. They have better training, equipment, and can get things organized better than I could. In this case the situation ended when the police officer confronted the attacker leaving the building, so a call was made.

The grey area for me would be what to do in the minutes after calling the police until the police arrive. For this situation the guy had a knife and was going after a particular person in an office. If it looked like the attacker was going to kill his target before the police arrive, then I would try to get the nearest capable (fit/strong) co-workers to try driving the attacker back or, if necessary, take control of the knife and get him on the ground. The important note for me is, if the attacker is disarmed, put him on the ground and control both his hands until the police can step in. Certainly don't let go to permit him running around the office or reach for extra weapons with his other hand. It is for getting him on the ground and controlling his other arm that I would want fit co-workers to assist.

Numidian · Mar 28, 2012

Tom Perroni said:
The lesson to take away from this, as I see it, is don't get involved if you are not trained to handle the situation.

Call the police...that is what we are here for. Those folks are lucky they are not dead.

And see how many more people the guy can stab in the 5-10 minutes it takes the police to get there? :tdown:

Obviously, yes the police should be called, but to just stand by and do nothing is about the worse thing I can imagine able bodied people doing.

ALBY · Mar 28, 2012

honestly, I've never seen or been taught a knife defense that i think would work, especially gainst someone with training. t knife defense = trade your weak arm/hand for your life. we used to chalk up knives in jujitsu (BJJ) and play around. the results were not encouraging.

only reliable knife defense = a gun !

hvymax · Mar 28, 2012

Once he was disarmed the first time he should have been restrained till police could get there. Doing nothing is not an option when someone is actively attacking.

DefensivePatriot · Mar 28, 2012

Numidian said:
Obviously, yes the police should be called, but to just stand by and do nothing is about the worse thing I can imagine able bodied people doing.

I somewhat agree, part of the problem with our society now is how everyone just stands by and watches from the sidelines. Now I would not go into a knife fight empty handed, there are many items that can be picked up to deflect knives or used as a bat etc. I would feel pretty bad if I just sat by and watched someone get stabbed to death when I could have done something to help.

DefensivePatriot · Mar 28, 2012

hvymax said:
Once he was disarmed the first time he should have been restrained till police could get there. Doing nothing is not an option when someone is actively attacking.

+ 1

Trekker · Mar 28, 2012

ALBY said:
honestly, I've never seen or been taught a knife defense that i think would work, especially gainst someone with training. t knife defense = trade your weak arm/hand for your life. we used to chalk up knives in jujitsu (BJJ) and play around. the results were not encouraging.

In Aikido we practiced knife defense and I agree that outside of a great heaping of luck the defender is unlikely to come out uninjured, especially if the attacker has some clue what he is doing or is slashing around erratically. I think the point in Aikido techniques was to get control of the knife (and holding arm) to throw, disarm, and pin without taking head or body wounds. Too bad for your forearms, though.

DefensivePatriot said:
I somewhat agree, part of the problem with our society now is how everyone just stands by and watches from the sidelines. Now I would not go into a knife fight empty handed, there are many items that can be picked up to deflect knives or used as a bat etc. I would feel pretty bad if I just sat by and watched someone get stabbed to death when I could have done something to help.

After first reading the news article I took a look around my workspace. A colleague has a nice solid cane (kendo anyone?), and I have one of those slim metal desk lamps with a 10 lbs. sand-filled metal baseplate.

pwoolford · Mar 28, 2012

ALBY said:
honestly, I've never seen or been taught a knife defense that i think would work, especially gainst someone with training. t knife defense = trade your weak arm/hand for your life. we used to chalk up knives in jujitsu (BJJ) and play around. the results were not encouraging.

only reliable knife defense = a gun !

I've done a good bit of knife disarms and fighting with chalked up knives too and it takes a lot of practice just like anything else. I would absolutely get out of the area and wait for the pros to arrive if at all possible. If not that is why I carry a sharp knife and why I still practice drawing it quickly. What I found was if someone has training with a knife you are probably going to get cut. Just a matter of how badly and hopefully you can do more damage quicker.

I also think that if someone attempts to kill me with a knife and I manage to disarm him...I'm not giving him time to see what else he can pull out to try and kill me with.

lx1x · Mar 28, 2012

i personally dont like close combat knife fighting.. if one is trained.. he can be very good at it. if one is not.. couple strike one would do.. slashing or stabbing motion.

best defense.. keep your distance. if you have to go in close.. block w/ outside of your arm... (avoiding blood veins on the arm). move in quick and control the hand w/ the knife. (i miss hapkido classes).

Tom Perroni · Mar 28, 2012

Numidian said:
And see how many more people the guy can stab in the 5-10 minutes it takes the police to get there?

Obviously, yes the police should be called, but to just stand by and do nothing is about the worse thing I can imagine able bodied people doing.

We could what if this to death.......However instead of trying to learn how to knife fight or disarm him.....Let's talk about situational awareness and having an escape route or a plan in place to deal with sort of event.

You will never truly know how you will react in this type of situation. I pray that you never have to be in this type of situation. As I have seen the elephant many times.

It's cool to be tuff on the internet......but I see every day how people react or actually don't react at all. They take a basic pistol course and now they are a gunslinger…that is a false sense of security.

Couple of takeaways:

Action always beats reaction...SO BE PROCATIVE!
And that does not always mean fight…it could mean tactically re-locate
"You will not rise to the occasion.....you will default to your level of training.
How good was/is your training?

mdvctry · Mar 28, 2012

Tom Perroni said:
We could what if this to death.......However instead of trying to learn how to knife fight or disarm him.....Let's talk about situational awareness and having an escape route or a plan in place to deal with sort of event.

You will never truly know how you will react in this type of situation. I pray that you never have to be in this type of situation. As I have seen the elephant many times.

It's cool to be tuff on the internet......but I see every day how people react or actually don't react at all. They take a basic pistol course and now they are a gunslinger…that is a false sense of security.

Couple of takeaways:

Action always beats reaction...SO BE PROCATIVE!
And that does not always mean fight…it could mean tactically re-locate
"You will not rise to the occasion.....you will default to your level of training.
How good was/is your training?

+1

StantonCree · Mar 28, 2012

Tom Perroni said:
We could what if this to death.......However instead of trying to learn how to knife fight or disarm him.....Let's talk about situational awareness and having an escape route or a plan in place to deal with sort of event.

You will never truly know how you will react in this type of situation. I pray that you never have to be in this type of situation. As I have seen the elephant many times.

It's cool to be tuff on the internet......but I see every day how people react or actually don't react at all. They take a basic pistol course and now they are a gunslinger…that is a false sense of security.

Couple of takeaways:

Action always beats reaction...SO BE PROCATIVE!
And that does not always mean fight…it could mean tactically re-locate
"You will not rise to the occasion.....you will default to your level of training.
How good was/is your training?

I have just enough krav magra (or however u spell it) to be a danger to myself in an altercation in the ring with someone trained in it. Thats one thing people forget, there little knowledge and experience of actal combat. Yes I understand a gun feels powerful and you have been punching paper for years but generally people make bad decisions.

Don't relax until the encounter is truly over

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